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Virgin Media to begin penalizing users for illegal downloads

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews

March 31, 2008, 12:13 PM

The British ISP is set to throw down the gauntlet on those who download music by disconnecting those who fail to heed warnings.

Trade group British Phonographic Industry (BPI) is working with Virgin to implement a "three strikes" policy, which would initially deal with music downloads. However, film and television studios are also being invited to participate, meaning any illicit downloads could be penalized.

Record labels have been pleading with ISPs to take a more active role in preventing the transfer of illegal downloads, and the ISP appears to be the first to acquiesce. The government is also expected to weigh in on how the policy can be legally enforced.

According to a story in the London Telegraph, the trial program should go live within the next few months. Under the policy, a warning letter would follow the first offense, a temporary suspension on the second, and disconnection on the third.

Officials at Virgin say they have been in discussions with content providers over a voluntary system, which they favor. The UK government has weighed in, threatening legislation if the two sides could not come to an agreement.

BPI researchers would trace the downloads to customers accounts, which would then be handed over to Virgin for disciplinary action. The trade group would likely only be able to match the download to an IP: the ISP would need to match it to a name and address, according to the report.

The trade group has lauded the agreement, saying that ISPs cannot delay any further. "Government clearly shares the creative community's frustration at the failure of ISPs to take action," it told the paper.

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By Dennis2m

edited Apr 4, 2008 - 6:44 PM

Well well well LOL.

Virgin i wonder how Virgin they really are?

Has anybody ever read the data protection act of 1998 @ virgin? I bet ya a billion quid they haven't. Well they should as if they give any data or any details to BPI or any other industry or anyone else for that matter without written consent of the person or persons involved then that person/persons may sue virgin for what ever they are worth sounds good to me. Alot of what the government & the BPI is doing by getting ISP's to monitor downloading files is going to conflict with the data protection act which was put there to keep people safe & the government safe. If the government changes the data protection act then does that mean equal opportunitys will arise if the government spys on us who spys on the government? The government has to be careful where it treads & what they legislate. The ISP's have to becareful if they impose a 3 strike ban & 16 million users are banned from each network they could be looking at possible bankruptcy. If BT is one of them that goes bankrupt then its bye bye telecommunications all mobile internet services will all go kerput (Non Existent)cos how many networks say you need a BT line if you want to go with us. How many networks or landline services pay BT behind closed doors for use of BT's sattelite/line rental? Who will support ISP's when they are in liquidisation? Will it be the government or BPI/MPAA or RIAA? & how many of the ISP's would they be able to support? Read data protection act Rights of data subjects and others. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/A..._19980029_en_3#pt2-l1g7

Score: 0

By Flain

edited Apr 3, 2008 - 8:45 AM

There are a number of problems with this. The major one being that a filename can be named ANYTHING, that is for instance "Britney Spears - Toxic.mp3" could actually contain a perfectly legal track, the company (BPI) would have to open and check anything downloaded to actualy prove the track or tracks contained copyrighted material (this also goes for movies, software etc). If you accuse people you must have poof otherwise the BPI could be facing court costs and lawyers bills. Also, people are warned could simply move to other ISP's and Virgin could go out of bussiness. We are the paying customers and once again Virgin has forgotten this.

Score: 0

By rodi1981

edited Apr 1, 2008 - 4:27 PM

What if some one use my wireless the going to cut me off hahahaha

Score: 0

By ingram091

edited Apr 1, 2008 - 5:29 AM

With the overall Weak Burden of proof and very questionable means that they attain their information that these companies subject their victims too, within 1 day I can see Every British ISP subscriber getting the three strikes and thus the ISP having no customers any longer...

Yea good move. Within 1 month the ISPs will be forced to tell the BPI to go screw themselves some more cause they will not go out of business for them.

I encourage every British citizen to go and download the entire Virgin catalog on the day it happens. have the 3 strikes , and happily delete every trace of it and watch as the ISPs go WTF? when the BPI insists they ban all 5 million subscribers thus destroying their business. And the British courts would not have the resources to bring all 5 million of these cases to trial. Thus the ISP will within 1 month tell the BPI to get lost, next time they come up with another Business plan that is tantamount to fiscal suicide.

Why they would not negotiate a royalty fee (similar to BBC radio) instead of this BS IDK. At least there it would promote the use of their network instead of basically telling their subscribers that your all criminals and your all banned now. bye bye. Virgin let a HUGE profit making venture that would set a precedence world wide slip through their fingers.

Score: 0

By Hollywood__

edited Mar 31, 2008 - 10:01 PM

This sounds like a challenge, I think I'll go put 30 Gigs of Virgin music in the Azureus queue.

Won't these people ever learn?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 1, 2008 - 12:57 PM

Yeah! Screw them for trying to protect their IP!

Those bas****s!

*laughing*

Whatever, man..

Freedom fighter, my ass....

Score: 0

By imafurby

posted Mar 31, 2008 - 5:42 PM

Richard Branson and his stupid Virgin empire suck. Who would want to dowmload their crap anyway? Are they an ISP now? What pie doesn't Richard stinkin' Branson have his finger in these days? This is yet another rich fool who would also have us subscribe to this inane global warming garbage. Virgin mobile used to sell pre-paid phone cards printed on paper. Recently thousands of these things inexplicably now all come printed on a throwaway plastic card. Save the planet? Yeah right. Another jet setting hypocrite bum destined for the toilet of history.

Score: 0

By Zee333

posted Apr 1, 2008 - 7:08 AM

Yeah, they are an ISP now.
NTL took over Telewest, then Virgin took over NTL for something like £1 Billion

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Mar 31, 2008 - 1:56 PM

Score: 0

By Galway

edited Mar 31, 2008 - 3:35 PM

In reply to PC-Tool. But started new comment >?

"BPI researchers would trace the downloads to customers accounts"

Its the responsibility of virgin only to inform them, and suspend accounts for those failing to heed the warnings. This could be recouped in the amount of bandwidth consumed by these types of users. Cable users, if they did jump ship, would need to have a BT line fitted & activated (If not already connected) and lose any package benefits linked to Virgin media. Since Virgin media cable is 20mb, being upgraded to 50mb soon nationwide, this looks good compared to DSL which for the most part is upto 8mb in most areas with some offering 16mb tops.

DSL customers are more likely to just ISP without too much problem, but I expect a situation where when you switch you are asked if you have been terminated from another ISP as part of the contract questions.

I also think that the way the evidence is gained, like just in the USA courts, is technically illegal in the UK.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Mar 31, 2008 - 1:56 PM

In reply to TC-Tool. But started new comment >?


Who? :p

This could be recouped in the amount of bandwidth consumed by these types of users.

Unused bandwidth costs just as much as used bandwidth.

DSL customers are more likely to just ISP without too much problem, but I expect a situation where when you switch you are asked if you have been terminated from another ISP as part of the contract questions.

Where it thus hurts both Virgin *and* the ISP's that are going along with them.

*shrug*

Not an expert in the ISP field by any stretch of the imagination, but I can't really see this as *helping* their bottom line in anyway.

Score: 0

By Galway

edited Mar 31, 2008 - 3:52 PM

"Unused bandwidth costs just as much as used bandwidth."

If indeed it is unused, since at peak times it is necessary to throttle bandwidth to maintain acceptable bandwidth for everyone. Surly this will have an impact for everyone and if anything will appeal to the millions who hate throttling with a passion.

"Where it thus hurts both Virgin *and* the ISP's that are going along with them."

I dont see it this way. They do it with insurance, where you are asked if you have made a previous claim. Would you like millions of users kicked from other ISP's coming to your ISP and ruining your enjoyment and paying the same as you.

"That's just sad. How are they going to pay for the extra monitoring? The administrative costs of tracing, informing, and ultimately, disconnecting?"

Your original point was how are they going to pay for the extra monitoring. And the article clearly answered that.

"BPI researchers would trace the downloads to customers accounts, which would then be handed over to Virgin for disciplinary action."

Score: 0

By kazzi

posted Mar 31, 2008 - 1:24 PM

Hum !

So how are they gonna do this? Files can be encrypted, files can be renamed and so on. This looks good in theory but in practice .......

A friend of mine is a singer and sends me mp3's she has made of herself singing. How will ISP's know a genuine download from an illegal one?

And, where will it stop. Will all downloads be monitored? Personal email etc. I can see some expensive lawsuits here.

Score: 0

By cousinkix1953

posted Mar 31, 2008 - 7:10 PM

And what about certain sites with deluge of LEGAL free musc? There is plenty of it to be found on those live music archives and will the ISPs in the UK know one place from another?

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Mar 31, 2008 - 4:03 PM

"A friend of mine is a singer and sends me mp3's she has made of herself singing. How will ISP's know a genuine download from an illegal one?
"

That's not how they find you. They, or an agency, use the P2P network to find out who is sharing content that is known to be copyright material. Once they connect to the peers, they have your IP address and enough evidence to contact your ISP. In some cases they might just choose to get a court order and prosecute you directly.

"Files can be encrypted"

Yes they can, and this is good enough to stop your ISP tracking you. But as explained above this is not how they are finding you.

"How will ISP's know a genuine download from an illegal one?"

Again ... They dont need to.

"And, where will it stop. Will all downloads be monitored? Personal email etc. I can see some expensive lawsuits here."

Most of them aimed at sony I hope. But seriously, paranoia aside, unless your in the US and a terrorist I think you have little to fear in respect to your privacy.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Mar 31, 2008 - 1:58 PM


So how are they gonna do this? Files can be encrypted, files can be renamed and so on. This looks good in theory but in practice .......

Sandvine. Encrypt, secure, rename...all I can say is...good luck.

A friend of mine is a singer and sends me mp3's she has made of herself singing. How will ISP's know a genuine download from an illegal one?

Good question. They won't.

And, where will it stop. Will all downloads be monitored? Personal email etc. I can see some expensive lawsuits here.

Email uses a separate protocol. They will only be monitoring P2P protocols.

Score: 0

By Mystiqq

edited Mar 31, 2008 - 3:03 PM

Just to point out that ISP's throttling bittorrent for example seems to be "normal" these days (?) and which is why many P2P programs already use some form of protocol "encryption" option or whatever you want to call it. No idea if it might have some effect to this though?

I'm referring to the "monitoring P2P protocols" part.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Mar 31, 2008 - 1:09 PM

Wow.

That's just sad. How are they going to pay for the extra monitoring? The administrative costs of tracing, informing, and ultimately, disconnecting?

How are they going to recover their losses from those they disconnect and those that simply jump ship at this news?

More hidden costs? Higher prices? Cutbacks in build-outs?

This has EPIC FAIL written all over it...

Score: 0

By preinterpost

posted Mar 31, 2008 - 2:27 PM

I wouldn't be so sure in discounting a flawed surveillance system. See for example eBay. They want as much commerce going on as possible yet they have to evict black sheep (or banks doing money laundry surveillance/compliance but let's keep it closer to the plebs). They have automated tools that for sure got refined over time - still I know a couple of ppl who have been booted and swear innocence.

How I see this happening is some trancing SW picking out suspicious traffic and automatically flagging it up. If you are innocent you can talk to CS pro-actively and hope CS exists and speaks your language. If not you are gone. The cost impact is probably less than covering the law suits against the ISP itself or overhead collecting data for law suits against users, which they are prob legally bound to do.

Score: 0

By cousinkix1953

edited Mar 31, 2008 - 7:19 PM

"See for example eBay. They want as much commerce going on as possible yet they have to evict black sheep."

eBay is famous for selling over priced phony imported music CDs that don't even exist in the Schwann catalogs. Thieves are known to sell pirated LIVE Grateful Dead concerts for as much as $100.00 USD. That's about 4 times what you'll pay for them legally over the counter in a retail store.

Those thieves are making a fortune. Copyright laws are the biggest joke on eBay and the stupid fux at the RIAA are going after teenagers who downloaded inferior compressed MP-3s instead. What idiots...

Score: 0

By sjc001

posted Mar 31, 2008 - 1:14 PM

I think that it is more a threat than a reality.

Score: 0

By toker

edited Apr 1, 2008 - 3:40 AM

oh well virgin you were gonna get me as a customer unlucky this time round looks like you will be bust within 10 years were broadband is concerned keep up the good work!!!!!!!!

Score: 0

By Kylde

posted Apr 1, 2008 - 5:28 AM

and that's the telling point, Virgin WILL lose customers (both old & new) with this announcement. Why did they announce this AT ALL? ISP's already do this, I have had 3 warning letters from AOL over the years, each 1 warning me that my "next" infringement would result in a disconnection of service, big deal

Score: 0

By graham11

edited Apr 2, 2008 - 8:22 AM

I am just wondering why virgin would want to update there current 20mb package to 50mb, if soon to there demise they are going to ban and watch IP`s, for downloading "ilegal" content.

Why would i want a 50mb package if I will not be allowed to use it to download, programs not available in the UK, series that are outdated in the UK?, these mostly come via the P2P network.

If i am only able to use their broadband for gaming and browsing, u can bet your every penny i will downsize to 4mb.
Apart from that I was under the impression Virgins broadband is digital so the amount of usage we all have does not interfere with your neighbours. As the cables in your house are able to boost something in the area of up to 100MB, which is shared between your televion and broadband, but regulated by virgin. Which was rubbish as telewest, worse as NTL and no better as virgin. Its actually virgins tightfisted approach which turned many many viewers of the tv package in the first place and will eventually do the same for their broadband service. A shame really as this is for me the most stable platform...

Score: 0

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