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Vista SP1 breaks ZoneAlarm, Trend Micro apps, among others

By Tim Conneally and Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews

February 21, 2008, 2:17 PM

Microsoft has presented a list of applications which are adversely affected by the problematic Vista Service Pack 1, some of which cease to function entirely.

The problem apps are categorized in three groups: those that are blocked from starting, those that lose functionality, and those that do not run at all following the installation of Service Pack 1.

Blocked programs were known to cause problems in SP1, so with approval from the software providers, Bitdefender AV and Internet Security v.10, Fujitsu Shock Sensor v 2.1.0.0, Jiangmin KV Antivirus v. 10 and 2008, Trend Micro Internet Security 2008, and Zone Alarm Security Suite 7.1 (more about this shortly) all will not start after installing the service update.

Programs reported to suffer reduced or total functionality loss are: The New York Times Reader, which stops working when the right mouse button is pressed; Rising Personal Firewall 2007, which loses disconnect functionality in SP1, and Novell ZCM Agent 10.0.x, which is not supported. Users are advised to contact respective software vendors.

Those programs which do not run at all include Iron Speed Designer 5.0.1, Xheo Licensing 3.1, and Free Allegiance 2.1. These companies do not have definitive solutions yet, but each expects a fix within 90 days.

SP1's "Beta-ish" rollout -- which takes the definition of "manufacturing," as in "release to," somewhat loosely -- was actually suspended on Tuesday afternoon after downloaders reported another endless reboot cycle caused by the automatic update. The first reports of this occurred in late January.

The ZoneAlarm problem has a bit of a story to it. Last June, its manufacturer announced it would be the first third-party firewall to support the new Windows Filtering Platform (WFP), which is a much more granular method of examining IP packet traffic specifically for Windows Vista. The differences between WFP and the existing Transport Device Interface (TDI) for Windows XP are analogous to those between digital and analog cable TV -- there's so much more data to monitor.

As a result, firewalls can be much more explicit about what degrees of IP traffic can be filtered or cancelled out, as opposed to simply turned on or off as has been the case with previous editions of ZoneAlarm. Vista's own Windows Firewall is actually the first in its category to support WFP, so naturally, ZoneAlarm had to play catch-up. Version 7.1 was therefore split off from the rest of the product line, which still uses TDI monitoring.

But as a result, the other products in that company's Internet Security Suite, including spy site blocking, instant messaging protection, and parental control -- components that had been integrated into the previous TDI firewall -- had to be suspended while the WFP-supporting upgrades were rolled out.

According to testers, the first betas of version 7.1 last fall slowed down Vista "to a crawl" (some would add, from a slow walk to a crawl). Build 218 seemed to solve that problem, and that's the version that was released for production use.

Unfortunately, that's also the version that Microsoft now says is causing problems with Vista SP1, as it now appears that far more third parties than just driver manufacturers are just now being introduced to Vista's new way of doing things.


Update ribbon (small)

10:25 pm EST February 21, 2008 - This evening, a spokesperson for Check Point Software Technologies, the parent company for ZoneAlarm, told BetaNews that the build number Microsoft supplied us with for the version of ZoneAlarm Internet Security Suite it said was incompatible with Vista SP1, was inaccurate. That build number should have been 7.1.105, stated Check Point's Heather Haas, and not 7.1.218, which she said is compatible with Vista SP1 and, in her words, "is not blocked."

"Check Point worked very closely with Microsoft during the development of SP1 and we worked very hard to make sure we had a compatible product available prior to the release of SP1," Haas stated. "We have reached out to all of our current 7.1 customers to ensure they have the most up-to-date version of the product before installing SP1."

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By Parrotz

edited Apr 17, 2008 - 1:48 PM

IMHO, ZA is a waste of time. It will work O.K. for awhile but has a tendency to become corrupted over time, requiring a purge of its DB file. It is also very resource intensive and slows down your machine noticeably. Try Avast! home edition (free) in conjunction with the native Windows firewall. This will work fine for most home users and will free up your machine to run like it should.

Score: 0

By danhb

edited Apr 6, 2008 - 8:42 PM

Well, ZA won't work for me any more under SP1.
I'm using ZoneAlarm Security Suite version:7.1.248.000
TrueVector version:7.1.248.000
Driver version:7.1.248.000
Anti-virus engine version:3
Anti-virus signature DAT file version:948354545
Anti-spyware engine version:5.0.189.0
Anti-spyware signature DAT file version:01.200804.3635

Score: 0

By danhb

posted Apr 7, 2008 - 8:41 AM

Actually I got Zonealarm to work again by booting into safe mode with networking and reinstalling a clean install. Dumps all my settings, but the program now works! I'm a happy camper. Now if I can only get my syslogger and my firedaemon trinity to work

Score: 0

By foxwolfen

edited Mar 21, 2008 - 12:12 AM

I have two comments. One in regards to DNSCache and one for PC_Tool

1. DNSCache

DNScache does seem to be causing a lot of problems after SP1.

What is it? A caching name server basically stores a copy of lookup tables so that the next time you access a site, it will look first at its cache before querying your providers name server. Theoretically this should speed up your internet access. In practice this is, for the most part, only true for those on a slow dial-up connection and even then...

If you are on a high speed connection you can safely disable it and never know the difference. To do that, click on "Administrative tools" in the control panel, then "services" and then "DNS client". Set it to "Manual" in the Start options. This will prevent it from starting and crashing as seems to happen to a lot of us, and for the most part should have little effect on web browsing.

To check its status and flush the cache, open the command prompt as an administrator (right click and click "run as administrator" on its icon in the Accessories start menu)
Type: ipconfig /flushdns

To start or stop the service type:
net stop dnscache (or start if stopped)

at kalyanakrishna: The reason it does not crash again if you leave the notification window open is because it is stopped.

Now... on to PC_Tool... it seems to me that TOOL is the operative word in your name. You are by all definitions the real TROLL here as you contribute nothing but noise. Lots of noise. Nobody really cares about your opinions (except for perhaps one or two fan boys), so keep them to yourself and get a life.

Score: 0

By bousozoku

posted Feb 25, 2008 - 2:26 PM

By the time Microsoft has finished "fixing" Windows Vista, nothing will run, including Office 2007.

It should be interesting to see how soon they start work on SP2.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 25, 2008 - 2:42 PM

Dude...

They are already working on SP2. Just as they are already working on Vienna (the next Windows OS), just as they are already working on the next version of Visual Studio, Office, etc....

Every software house is working on their "next" thing.

Get over it.

By the time Microsoft has finished "fixing" Windows Vista, nothing will run, including Office 2007.

Nice troll.

Score: 0

By The-One

posted Feb 23, 2008 - 3:49 PM

"The New York Times Reader"

Its a right-wing conspiracy!!!!! Where is Hillary to save us from this???? Help ME!!

/laugh

Score: 0

By Second Shadow

posted Feb 25, 2008 - 11:27 AM

I wonder ....

If the New York Times Reader stops working when the RIGHT mouse button is pressed, I'm assuming then that the New York Post Reader will stop working when the LEFT button is pressed, right? (I mean, "left?")

Sorry, not too funny, but I just had to do it ... :P

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 25, 2008 - 12:10 PM

No, no...that *was* funny.

No need to apologize. :)

Score: 0

By burfadel

edited Feb 23, 2008 - 9:52 AM

I had serious problems with Vista SP1 RTM on a clean system connected to a network, which is slightly related to this, but I thought I'd post it in case others come across the same problem. I have Vista Ultimate x64, but the same problem by a google search occurs on both 32 and 64 bit versions including Home Premium and Business, and also on pre-sp1 installations.

On a PC that is LAN connected, in certain circumstances there are BSOD's caused by either tcpip.sys or netio.sys. I did a search for:

tcpip.sys vista crash

and

netio.sys vista crash

and many people had the same problem, most went unanswered. This went back a number of months and patches from Microsoft didn't help those people. No matter what setting you do or what services you close off, etc. etc. nothing helps.

I then came across a post that didn't really make sense to me for it to work... but it did! (touchwood, it hasn't crashed for quite a while now unlike before).

Basically, go to the command prompt by running cmd.
type in:

netsh int IP reset

and

netsh int winsock reset

That should resolve the issue! The first one is the most likely one, but the second command cannot hurt and covers the bases.

Hope this helps, its information that DEFINITELY needs to be distributed!

Note that the occurrence of this particular crash varies, from people who cannot go more than 5 minutes in vista without a BSOD to maybe many hours (or possibly days), but regardless of this the crashes relating to tcpip.sys or netio.sys are most likely resolved by using the above method.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 25, 2008 - 10:00 AM

Cool.

Hopefully, before this is released to the public, the updates and driver fixes will take care of this, but if not, Google will hopefully bring this post up for those having this issue.

(Note: Haven't tried SP1 yet. Still using an updated Ultimate...so when I say "hopefully", I mean it. *crosses fingers*)

Score: 0

By Malachai

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 5:34 PM

I had a client who was connecting to a financial corporation that required the use of Zone Alarm and Norton Antivirus. When they told me that, I set them up with a VMWare machines on their desktop. I don't want to support that trainwreck of a program and frankly, it's pretty sad a company the size of the one I was dealing with required such home-oriented software.

Score: 0

By Pegusis2

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 3:05 PM

I installed SP1 Beta and I have had no problems... nothing like some of you are having. I have all the latest drivers installed and I download all updates and I do not seem to get the problems... Knock on Wood. I have been using AVG since Jan/2008 when Windows Live 1 Care AV ran out and I have had no issues here either.

I am running Ultimate, and have been since it came out, I have no issues with my version of the O/S.

Knock Knock Knock on wood.... :o)

Score: 0

By kalyanakrishna

edited Feb 22, 2008 - 2:33 PM

My SP1 install (x86) broke WinAmp (starts, doesnt play anything), Skype (chat works, starts, no sound at all), java apps crash IE unless run as administrator, dnscache crashes everr 3 mins. If the crash report window is left alone, no more crashes are reported.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Feb 22, 2008 - 2:39 PM

Wow. Might want to wait for it to be distributed to the general public and make sure all your drivers are up to date before installing.

Score: 0

By jofin

edited Feb 22, 2008 - 2:26 PM

I like BetaNews and enjoy reading most of the comments which are constructive and sometimes amusing. However, I am at a total loss as to why BetaNews allow complete dumbas* morons like PC_tools to submit comments. He seems to think that he is a genius submitting his special brand of garbage while personally attacking many of the persons who have passed comments he does not agree with.
My personal advice to Pc_tools would be to go and top himself and give the world a break from his nasty, useless rhetoric ! What a sad life he must lead. As an encore he probably beats up teddy bears or picks on infant children. By the way Pc_tools you can submit as many nasty comments to this offering as you want. I certainly will not read it and I would think that there are very few idiots like yourself out there who are remotely interested in what you have to say.

Score: 0

By morriscox

posted Feb 24, 2008 - 11:21 AM

You're in luck. It's PC_Tool who posts here, not PC_tools.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Feb 22, 2008 - 2:37 PM

while personally attacking many of the persons who have passed comments he does not agree with.

I argue with folks I don't agree with (the intent of the forum, open discussion), and I respond in kind to those who personally attack me. I also defend those I agree with and call a troll a troll. (Hello, troll)

If you can't deal with it, gtfo. :)

As for lack of constructive or amusing content and personal attacks, I see your little post contains none of the former and plenty of the latter.

Throw stones in glass houses much?

Have a nice day.

Score: 0

By jofin

edited Feb 22, 2008 - 5:46 PM

You have only confirmed what a clown you are. Your parents must be very proud !
The earlier post by me was written solely as a response your cr*p.
What a sad idiot Pc_tools is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, I really hope you have a shi**y day, month, year, life but there again, you obviously already are. Spend your life on here attacking others because you have no friends. I don't even know you and I don't like you.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 25, 2008 - 9:42 AM

*laughing*

Lookkit! He's foaming at the mouth!

That was awesome. Can you do it again? I mean, we don't get jackasses like you in here, like...every friggin' day.

Spend your life on here attacking others because you have no friends

I only attack those who attack me. I discuss and argue with those I do not agree with and I support those I do agree with. I spend my time as I wish. I can afford to. Jealous?

I don't even know you and I don't like you.

Yes, judge them before you know them. I bet you claim to be a Christian as well...

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 11:33 PM

Are you 10? Everything you just complained about pc tool you just went and did, so not only are you a moron you are a hypocrite as well.

There are sure a bunch of newbies popping up on here lately...

Score: 0

By jofin

edited Feb 23, 2008 - 2:21 PM

Yes but I did it fully intentionally to try and get him to stop.
Also, without getting in to personal attacks, I have been a member here for years but resist posting my views. What possible validity would my views have with experts like you available? "A newbie", well I tell you boy, I have been at computers for more years than I care to remember but, I am certainly not an expert like you - I am sure you will have forgotten more than I will ever know. Compared to your super knowledge, mine just pales in to insignificance. You obviously know my lack of knowledge and etiquette makes me a moron and a hypocrite. You see, you fall in to the same category as Pc_tools and I avoided calling you a moron or a hypocrite. I think you are absolutely wonderful and have no doubt that someday you will rule the world - particularly in your own mind !

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 25, 2008 - 9:57 AM

*laughing*

That was awesome.

Really.

Please, continue. I love it when people, in an effort to criticize me, make themselves look like raving lunatics. Coming on here attacking everyone..and blaming it on me... (How very Liberal of you)

Makes me wonder under what username you were posting when you posted some lame-ass excuse for a troll and I called you on it, making you look like a complete imbecile.

I mean, this kind of thing doesn't come from nowhere ya know. I had to have made you look like an idiot at least once. (Judging from your posts here, likely many times)

Sorry. Try *not* being an idiot. That might help.

Score: 0

By morriscox

posted Feb 24, 2008 - 11:29 AM

You complain about someone's behavior (your perception) and then do it yourself? You think that by attacking someone that they'll stop whatever it is that you don't like? Wow.

I complained once before about the BetaNews staff dropping the ball; however, they finally took care of the situation. I hope they get around to stepping in. You seemed to have missed in the previous post the part about: "personal attacks will not be tolerated".

Quantity of time is not the same as quality of time.

Score: 0

By oldcodger

posted Feb 23, 2008 - 2:31 PM

I took the time to read the posting by jofin and can understand and agree with his views.
However, my advice would be to not waste his time with muppets like PC_tools and terminalx. I have learned from previous experience that you simply cannot beat them. If you pass an opinion which differs from theirs, they simply get nastier and nastier and nastier with the personal attacks. Their mentality comes from junior school and when they were there they were probably the ones that bullied others.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Feb 25, 2008 - 9:57 AM

What's with all the wet-brained whiners?

If you pass an opinion which differs from theirs, they simply get nastier and nastier and nastier with the personal attacks.

If your opinion differs from mine, I will do one of three things:

1.) Ignore it.

2.) If it's a valid opinion, but mine differs I will attempt to get from you the basis of your opinion and try to explain the basis of mine.

3.) If your opinion amounts to "M$ is a Wh0re", I will flame and ridicule your pathetic excuse for existence as long as you remain on these forums.

If you have a problem with that, there is a very simple solution:

Don't be a moron. Don't post tired trolls, and if you don't want to discuss your opinions, don't post them on a public forum.

Pretty simple stuff. Think you can hack it?

Score: 0

By Point Zero

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 9:55 AM

LOL! Let's call this one Vista X-Ultimate !

Score: 0

By madmike

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 8:01 AM

Another reason I do not install this joke program,what a laugh.. also I dont use Zone alarm another waste of time. Like Windows ME, another failed version of windows which should never have been released.

It would only have been RTM`d due to Microsofts Technolog Guarantee - new version every 2-3 years which is in there EULA.

Total waste of time and programming

Score: 0

By Aires

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 6:49 AM

What a farce Vista has been and what a complete joke Vista SP1 is turning out to be. [tsk]

Score: 0

By rsx508

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 11:58 PM

Why bother posting any real content after a title having "Microsoft" in it? Just post a headline of "Microsoft" and leave the body blank. That will draw out the usual anti-MS crowd like leaving food out for the ants. Most of the comments don't have anything to do with the topic anyway. They just offer an excuse to rant on mindlessly about how evil or dumb MS is. As if anyone cares. They're a vendor that sells products. You don't like them? Don't buy them. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go do something useful like drink a beer.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 12:39 PM

Mmmm Beer.

I think I'll join ya.

Score: 0

By Floodland

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 5:41 PM

Some of the usual MS fanboys have a point in their previous comments: 3rd parties will eventually fix their applications to support Vista SP1 and its amateurish design changes. Some genius at MS had the idea to throw the W2008 kernel at Vista and there we go!

Everyone else must understand that companies with small experience (as MS) sometimes changes their products unprofessionally and so their standards.
/sarcasm

They code less (one kernel) and make everyone else code more (to support their unexpected changes). It is Microsoft! And we still pay for their products, THAT is awesome!

Score: 0

By tontito

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 11:17 AM

It is mICROSOFT at it's best...crap.

Long live XP!!!

Score: 0

By Jonnn21

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 2:59 PM

Maybe its the users!

Ive had it since the start and havent had ONE single problem. EVERYTHING works perfectly.

You shouldnt bash something you know nothing about.

Score: 0

By bsf

posted Feb 24, 2008 - 8:58 AM

The drivers are definitely not well supported by 3rd parties.
I mean XP drivers were pretty much good after a year, and yet Vista drivers still seems to be pretty crappy for a lot of times.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 25, 2008 - 9:36 AM

Look everyone! It's a post from 8 months ago!

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 5:51 PM

You might actually have a point, if you had a clue what you were talking about.

WS2008 is based on what kernel?

Vista is based on what Kernel?

Hmmm...

Score: 0

By Denier

edited Feb 23, 2008 - 7:55 PM

Speaking of kernels, PC_Tool, your lack of usual witty repartee on some of the links here, re what constitutes the Vista kernel, is most curious.
Silence in this instance indicates a degree of graciousness I thought beyond you. My apologies!
Be that as it may, the finest OS, in my most humble opinion is "eXperience" version of XP Pro utilizing the wonderful kernel of Server 2003 SP2!
This may well be never bettered, if anyone wants links, get lost!

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 12:34 PM

it's "eXPerience".

I'm running the the "Tiny" from the Ultra DVD on my test box right now. :p

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 7:50 AM

Once again, he speaks, he trips, he splits nose on pavement!

OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
The STUPID!!!!!! IT BURNS!!!!!!

Score: 0

By morriscox

posted Feb 25, 2008 - 3:09 PM

If you're in that much pain, maybe you should go to the ER. See a psychologist too. (sarcasm alert for the humor-impaired)

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 12:38 PM

Must be nice to never have to grow up.

Of course, then you don't get to experience all the wonderful things grownups do, but then, I doubt you'd ever get those kind of opportunities anyway.

Score: 0

By Floodland

edited Feb 21, 2008 - 5:57 PM

Kernel 6.0.6001

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/14074

Again, google is your friend PC_Tool... Who needs to know what is writing about?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 12:35 PM

*yawn*

WS2008 is based on the 2003 kernel, as was Vista pre-SP1.

Modifications were made to both in tandem.

Huh....funny how that worked out.

Anyone else need a clue?

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 6:29 PM

Straight from microsoft..... not sure this counts as exactly sneaky
http://technet2.microsof...n/library/005f921e-f706...

"Windows Vista Alignment with Windows Server 2008

Windows Vista is aligned with Windows Server 2008, meaning that many files are common to both products. A result of this design is that there are cases where a common binary is modified to enable a server scenario that has limited or no effect on Windows Vista SP1 capabilities. Here are few examples:



File Sharing: The file sharing subsystem on Windows Vista only allows 10 concurrent inbound connections. Windows Server 2008 must scale to support thousands of concurrent connections. During the testing and customer feedback phase of Windows Server 2008 development, the file sharing subsystems are tuned and refined to optimize the file sharing stack for performance, scalability and reliability. This level of tuning and refinement are not typically applicable on a 10-connection limit client, but are critical to a file server role. Changes like this are done primarily for the server scenarios, although these changes may also benefit Windows Vista SP1.


IIS 7: IIS was included in some Windows Vista SKUs to enable web-based developers to write and test their applications. IIS in Windows Server 2008 is a significant server role which requires Internet-level scalability and performance requirements. The IIS7 components have gone through significant performance and reliability enhancements since Windows Vista originally shipped, in order to be a large-scale server component. These changes do not affect most Windows Vista users who do not even have the IIS7 components installed, however because Windows Vista and Windows Server are aligned, these changes are included in Windows Vista SP1.


Concurrent User Support: Key subsystems such as the Windows Logon process and the core kernel need only support user-switching scenarios on Windows Vista. However, on Windows Server 2008, where a Terminal Server may have thousands of users logged in simultaneously, these subsystems must be tuned for maximum performance and reliability. Changes like this are done primarily for the server scenarios, although they may also benefit Windows Vista SP1."

Score: 0

By lazarus98

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 7:03 PM

My God.. Copy and pasted verbatim from: http://techreport.com/discussions.x/14074
Don't waste the space.

Score: 0

By terminalx

edited Feb 22, 2008 - 11:40 PM

and your point? He stated because it was based on server 2008 was the reason it was having problems, so I countered him with what he stated on the same msg board, never claimed it was mine.

That's why there are quotes around the whole article, you know what that means right?

It may use the same kernel but it was made to benefit Vista.

Score: 0

By jspratjr

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 5:16 PM

"The New York Times Reader, which stops working when the right mouse button is pressed" Good for SP1 - too bad it doesn't uninstall that liberal rag reader altogether.

Score: 0

By mj132

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 10:14 AM

Wow, my head in spinning thinking about what OS would properly represent FOX news. Ouch!

Score: 0

By pjb

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 5:02 PM

The proper full technical article, not scaremongering article can be found at:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/935796

As you will see vendors have started to resolve the incompatibilities.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Feb 21, 2008 - 5:19 PM

*gasp*

Amazing.

I wonder if that's why MSFT released it to OEMs first before releasing it to the consumer.

Huh.....

(Not directed at you, more at our lovely journalists and ingram)

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 4:07 PM

Who's to say Zonealarm isn't the one breaking Vista? Is Zonealarm even certified for Vista?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Feb 21, 2008 - 4:37 PM

Shhh.

This is supposed to be an MS flamefest. We're supposed to take the cue's given in the article (and there are *plenty* of them) and jump into an MS hate-fest.

Someone hasn't had their Hatorade today....

Score: 0

By ingram091

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 4:41 PM

heheh I didnt say a word!! lol

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 5:17 PM

Liar.

At least someone's keeping the Hatorade folks in business.

Score: 0

By Mystiqq

edited Feb 21, 2008 - 3:49 PM

"You've got vista" is something i might imagine doctor saying to a patient.

Score: 0

By frankwick

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 3:15 PM

People still use Zone Alarm?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 3:34 PM

It was the best...ages ago.

Frankly, there wasn't a program listed I'd be caught dead running.

Must be one of the reason's no-one but the bashers/trolls actually seem to give a s***.

Score: 0

By mj132

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 10:15 AM

So what's the new best zonealarm replacement? Enlighten us (well, me).

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 12:33 PM

Windows Firewall.

If you;re behind a NAT router, that is all you really need. Anything else just takes up resources.

Score: 0

By Ian C.

posted Feb 23, 2008 - 1:31 AM

Agreed!

Score: 0

By Malachai

edited Feb 22, 2008 - 5:24 PM

I'm going to officially throw my hat in the ring with PC_Tool. I've been saying this for YEARS!!!!!

Score: 0

By dvferret

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 3:54 PM

Yup you got that right.

Score: 0

By prometheus2005

edited Feb 21, 2008 - 3:05 PM

vista is a joke. xp is better, faster and more secure.when xp fails to be supported by microsoft i'll go linux

Score: 0

By jspratjr

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 5:19 PM

Not sure what you're running it on (if you are at all) but my experience with Vista and XP renders your comment a joke.

Score: 0

By netjustin

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 5:12 PM

"when xp fails to be supported by microsoft i'll go linux"

You'll "go" linux huh? What a load of bubbly, runny excrement.

Score: 0

By alphatrigon

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 3:56 PM

dos was the fastest...what's this thing called technology? Where's my abacus! hehe

Score: 0

By testman

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 3:31 PM

So?

Windows 2000 is faster than XP. Me is faster than 2000. 98 is faster than Me. 95 is faster than 98. 3.1 is faster than 95.

XP more secure than Vista? HAHAHA now I know the rest of your statement is a joke.

Score: 0

By auiotour

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 5:07 PM

Glad someone has half a brain, People seem to not put things into perspective. Yes Vista is slower, but hell it was all the flame online to b**** about how XP was slower then 98. But when systems were produced that could run it good enough. I have absolutely no problem running vista x64 on my system currently, both intel x64 processors one macbook pro the other custom build system.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 3:36 PM

God, I actually agree with you.

This ain't right.

I might actually have to hop the Apple Fanboy Bandwagon over this.

Score: 0

By cap737

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 12:25 AM

There's plenty of room!

Score: 0

By frankwick

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 3:15 PM

XP is faster, but how can say it's more secure than Vista?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 3:31 PM

How? Well, by ignoring the facts, of course. :)

Score: 0

By ingram091

edited Feb 21, 2008 - 5:01 PM

lol OK I'll say it here instead...

Out of box. I agree with you. But if you know what your doing XP is just as secure as Vista is. You know that. Its just Vista puts all that integrated into a MS tool, which is not all that administratively friendly by design.

Where as XP has a multitude of options available to it cause its been out longer and had more time to develop in a more open environment then Vista allows developers to be in. The downside is you cant afford to be Stupid on XP SP3. You can on Vista.

Basically MS does not want you tinkering with that stuff at all. Now some of the OS breaking things ARE COMING OUT OF VISTA with SP1. So thats something to be thankful for right there with administrators.

As to zonealarm. well. I can see people being pissed cause they wasted their money. but in the same breath I have to say why did they go to Vista at all if they were already using something like Zonealarm? I mean all Vista was, was a bit of fluff and dander with a intergrated security shell, that Should have just been a part of the SP3 for XP anyway.

XP sp3; Add in a couple more needless bells and whistles, and a splash of eye candy, A large price tag, and a list of incompatibilities with existing equipment... And there is Vista in a nutshell..

Its no wonder people downgrade all the time anymore... They want an OS that works for sure. And that is XP. I prefer Windows 2000 for my business.. Both advance server and Workstations... It has a fraction of the time wasters build into it,and its fast and efficient. And its kinda off the radar anymore as people are more interested in hacking away at Windows vista and XP anymore... So I don't tend to worry about my network anywhere near as much as those on 2003 and XP workstations, or vista business does today...

Just my opinion... is all I am saying. MS will eventually figure out that the basics are what matters, NOT the eye candy...

A fast secure OS that works with everything out there plug and play... Thats what matters... Not tiered pricing, Fancy unneeded start menu skins, Wired call back routines calling home every few hours to verify this or that. bla bla bla. The sooner MS learns THIS is what makes a successful OS the sooner we can get back to business as usual with them.

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By PC_Tool

edited Feb 21, 2008 - 5:16 PM

A fast secure OS that works with everything out there plug and play...

If wishes and dreams were.... Hate to burst your bubble, but this will *never* happen.

The sooner MS learns THIS is what makes a successful OS the sooner we can get back to business as usual with them.

Sorry, but from a commercial standpoint, Eye-candy (The User Interface) is the Holy Grail. You are *more* than welcome to your opinion on the interface, but trying to state that MS is missing the boat by focusing on it is asinine. Have you missed the past decade where most OSes are judged by consumer and pundit alike by how it *looks*?

Hate to burst two bubbles in one thread, but you're living in a world separate from Microsoft's target audience. Consumers *want* eye-candy. They judge the OS on how it looks. Period. To ignore that is suicide.

You can claim Vista doesn't work with a lot of products. That's fun. It's all the rage these days. It's still BS. Most apps work fine, which is why most of the apps listed above are pretty damned near unheard of.

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By Seng

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 10:11 AM

I still wish MS would have approached Vista the same way Apple did OS9->OSX. Screw the compatibility - here's a brand new platform, new developer tools, etc. New software will be for the new OS, period. If you want old stuff to run, here's a virtual machine with the old OS you can "boot" to run it.

This would not only make it convenient to update everything to x64 boxes, but would lessen the compatibility issues with old software.

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By Ian C.

posted Feb 23, 2008 - 1:39 AM

Well unfortunately Microsoft has a huge user base, with billions of dollars of infrastructure built on their OSes. Therefore they need to try and maintain compatibility, where as Apple is just aiming for wow factor.

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By PC_Tool

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 12:32 PM

VirtualBox

That is all.

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By ingram091

edited Feb 21, 2008 - 6:11 PM

But you see Any moron with a little talent behind him can make a skin. I mean for crying out loud my Windows 2000 looks exactly like Vista with my overlays on it. Indeed I even have things going in it that Vista has yet to do, like a fullscreen video background, and 3 dimensional floating window boxes (madotate). Whoppty doo. All of that was attained FREE from this web site. Why they would the Eye candy matter? When anyone can put whatever on anything?

But the Operating System has to be Secure stable and fast. the rest is just fluff and dander... The fact that the natives are easily distracted by a shiny new object and are easily parted with their hard earned money to attain it is irrelevant. It is no different then administrators going to college and earning a degree so they know what they are doing. While the end users pay them $100s if not $1000s for the simplest of things that ANYONE that owns a computer should know how to do.

And as to the stuff that does NOT work on Vista I have listed them in the past to your beratement saying Well Duh they are not designed for Vista!!! Yea DUH!! does not change that we have no desire to pay MS thousands MORE to get newer versions that are designed for Vista when we don't need too. It should have been compatible to begin with, and that was ALWAYS the problem!

To name a few AGAIN
MAS90
MAS200
Crystal Reports
Earlier versions of Great Plains (MS too boot)
Earlier versions of Visual Studio (Again MS)
quite a few Adobe products (Expensive updates)
AutoCAD (VERY EXPENSIVE UPDATE)
Some Corel Products
Some Lotus Products
many Scanners and Printers

Thats just a few...

Sorry we are post revising and editing I was going to post this after. But yea THATs the problem.. I have to deal with businesses and yes thats why I am not a fan of VISTA... at least with XP I can get all that working without $1000s put out per seat just for the latest eye candy...

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By PC_Tool

edited Feb 21, 2008 - 5:49 PM

But you see Any moron with a little talent behind him can make a skin. I mean for crying out loud my Windows 2000 looks exactly like Vista with my overlays on it. Indeed I even have things going in it that Vista has yet to do, like a fullscreen video background, and 3 dimensional floating window boxes (madotate). Whoppty doo. All of that was attained FREE from this web site. Why they would the Eye candy matter? When anyone can put whatever on anything?

Are you *trying* to miss the point? You had to do this, install that, yadda yadda yadda. People don't want to have to do that crap.

But the Operating System has to be Secure stable and fast. the rest is just fluff and dander...

You'd be *amazed*. Change your perspective. If you are going to claim MS needs to change it's OS, you need to see it from the perspective of the consumer, not an IT employee. Looks are everything, ease of use is everything. The rest is chaff.

It should have been compatible to begin with, and that was ALWAYS the problem!

Bull. It was done *wrong* to begin with. It was insecure, it was full of leaks and backdoors. Should they have left all that crap in there? Your compatibility layer is called VirtualBox. Google it.

Half of the friggin' programs you mention are business applications that *will not be updated* until they *need* to be. No business is going to put Vista on a machine running AutoCAD unless they've already bought the new version for some other reason.

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By ingram091

edited Feb 21, 2008 - 6:08 PM

I know your a fan of MS. Heck in some ways I am too. but I am also their greatest critic cause it seems at times the only way to get them back on track is to pound them over the head with things until they get the point... Worked with Gates, Balmers got a thick skull!!!

And Yes I receive any number of free stuff from MS for this that or the other thing. the most recent I received was a Windows Server 2008 NFR with 5 CALs. So yea they do treat me good. But it does not change that from a economic stand point, I can't see how a regular person is expected to put up with their stuff all the time... I agree XP had problems, but by the time SP3 is rolled and with the multitude of tools out there for it, its a pretty secure environment overall. If anyone takes the time to do what needs to be done to it. Vista is too, but has yet to be THE OS that makes or breaks the Tech curve IMHO.

I have not personally spent much on a MS product in a long time, because they send me stuff to review and test. And my Technet Subscription covers the rest, but that's through work. How many people you think get that? Actually LOTS.

So when I see real people saying

Wow that's pretty expensive what am I getting for this price?...

And people like you and me can only say,

well its more secure, its prettier and its got humm... online poker!!

Then the regular guy is like Wait? why was that just not added to XP so it would be more secure?

IDK but this will be better I promise.

Next day. wait a min this thing does not work with over half the stuff I got...

Sorry sir you opened the software your owned now!! sucker!!

That's what I see as MS stance. And that is why I do not like to advise ANYONE to EVER go to Vista unless they are basically starting from scratch. No old software no old equipment, Nothing. Then and ONLY then would I recommend Vista.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 12:32 PM

well its more secure, its prettier and its got humm... online poker!!

Typical...

More secure kernel, more stable memory handling, better driver handling, improved APIs for getting programs to work better within the OS (will not take effect until programs are written *for* Vista, totally new redesign of graphic and audio subsystems, including the API's developers will use to program for them....

Yeah...Vista's got nuthin'.

*shakes head*

And that is why I do not like to advise ANYONE to EVER go to Vista unless they are basically starting from scratch

I actually agree with you there. Hence why it won't be on my wife's system and why it is on mine (which I built specifically for Vista.

This is a new OS with a lot of new ways of doing certain things. There's going to be a period of adjustment. That in no way means Vista is crap. It simply means that we've gotten to the point hardware-wise that we can do things *better* without too much of a performance hit.

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By mjm01010101

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 3:30 PM

Because it actually *works* with security programs as advertised?

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By PC_Tool

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 3:32 PM

Huh...

I've yet to see an Ad for Vista, much less one that claims compatibility with ZoneAlarm.

One might actually think that'd be a job for the boys down at ZoneLabs.

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By mjm01010101

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 6:40 PM

One might also think that if Microsoft allows and encourages developers to develop on their platform, that they mandate what will and won't work through the life of its outlined product.

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By PC_Tool

edited Feb 22, 2008 - 12:25 PM

Riiight, because they *knew* when they designed Windows 95 that ZoneAlarm would need to support TDI monitoring...eventually.

Yeah..

When you come back to reality, let me know.

On second thought, don't.

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By G Dammit

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 2:42 PM

This is what happens when you put a server OS kernel in a desktop OS. This is no different than trying to run Windows XP drivers under Windows Server 2003.

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By Seng

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 10:12 AM

Umm, there are PLENTY of drivers that are XP/2003 drivers... same binary file in use both places.

Dumb comment.

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By G Dammit

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 2:13 PM

A long time ago on an older computer that used an AMD Athlon 64 X2 processor I tried installing the Windows XP version of AMD's Cool 'n Quiet driver under Windows Server 2003. It seemed to install correctly despite getting several messages stating the driver was not signed with Authenticode but after rebooting at the end of installation the event log in Windows Server 2003 said the driver wasn't loaded because it was incompatible with Windows Server 2003. I'm sure that AMD has probably changed their driver package since then and put a Windows Server 2003 compatible driver in the same package as the Windows XP driver.

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By preinterpost

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 2:49 PM

This is so clever... May the devil bless you.

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By G Dammit

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 6:24 AM

I think He already has.

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By PC_Tool

edited Feb 21, 2008 - 2:40 PM

SP1's "Beta-ish" rollout -- which takes the definition of "manufacturing," as in "release to," somewhat loosely -- was actually suspended on Tuesday afternoon after downloaders reported another endless reboot cycle caused by the automatic update. The first reports of this occurred in late January.

??

This was a pre-update to prep systems for SP1, was it not? I do not believe it was actually SP1...which isn't due to hit auto-update until March (at least, if you go by Betanews reporting...)

RTM software is not the public release for a reason. Always has been. It gives the OEMs time to finalize prep with the actual code in hand. It is not unusual for OEMs to need time to solve issues with their respective hardware/software prior to consumer release, as you seem to be trying to imply.

According to testers, the first betas of version 7.1 last fall slowed down Vista "to a crawl" (some would add, from a slow walk to a crawl).

Yeah, Scott wrote that bit. Guaranteed. How cute. Never could leave the snarky comments to the "comments section".

as it now appears that far more third parties than just driver manufacturers are just now being introduced to Vista's new way of doing things.

Eh? Just now? Really? Like...today? I could have sworn Vista's been out quite some time now...

Nice guys. Really nice.

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By billweh

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 4:03 PM

I've been using Vista now for a month and I have to say that I really like it. Oh - it definitely does things a little different, but then again so did Win95 vs Win 3.11 as did Windows XP and Windows 2000.

In a few years we're probably all going to be kevetching that Windows 2010 doesn't work like Vista does. :)

I got SP1 through my MSDN subscription and overall it installed fine and everything I have still works.

Considering I use this as my work computer (a laptop) and I'm a developer, we tend to do things that your average user wouldn't do. (and not always on purpose ).

So far I'm happy - put Vista Ultimate on my wifes computer and she's happy (gave a faster computer with it, so that has part to do with it), but I don't get complaints that she can't get her work done.

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By PC_Tool

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 4:35 PM

Running Ultimate myself at home.

*shrug*

My wife is using XP MCE, which came with her system, and is perfectly happy with it as well.

I probably won't upgrade her to Vista, simply because MCE does just fine for her and we're behind a server with a firewall, so aside from AV, we're not really all that concerned about security. She'll get Vista ... or whatever the latest MS OS is when she gets a new PC. She's got a few years yet...

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By zridling

edited Feb 22, 2008 - 8:07 AM

Well, that says a lot about how pathetic you are, toolie, spending your days obsessing with all things Microsoft. Any good news about Vista-SP1 is bad news for everyone else. Any bad news about Vista-SP1 is still good news for Microsoft. Also, grow up and leave your family out of your rants.

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By PC_Tool

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 12:23 PM

Go play on the highway, child. The grown-ups are trying to carry on a mature discussion.

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By terminalx

posted Feb 22, 2008 - 9:32 AM

You really need to stop obsessing over a name on a msg board, its quite disturbing, he's talking about his family because GASP! He was replying to someone and staying ON TOPIC.

I know that's a hard concept for you to grasp as all you do is troll and post your idiotic blog but instead of wasting energy posting about something you clearly hate move on to something else, your life cannot be that pathetic obsessing over a product you dislike is it?

I personally haven't had any problems with sp1 have it installed on 3 pcs and all had zero problems and I do prefer vista over xp.

I do hate the green indicator watching it sometimes crawl, but then again on xp it would do the same thing except you would get the hourglass and have no idea how long it progressed.

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By PC_Tool

posted Feb 25, 2008 - 11:24 AM

your life cannot be that pathetic obsessing over a product you dislike is it?

You obviously haven't *read* his blog...

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By Niro

edited Feb 21, 2008 - 3:07 PM

I don't know...I like Betanews...but their reporters have been pretty iffy lately.

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By bourgeoisdude

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 4:06 PM

I can't disagree with that.

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By dvferret

posted Feb 21, 2008 - 3:58 PM

Yah, other people said that too.

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