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Warner's high-def combo 'Total HD' project is unlikely to resume

By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews

November 20, 2007, 4:03 PM

The president of WHV made a statement to a reporter indicating his company would most likely not resume its ambitious hybrid Blu-ray/HD DVD combo disc project, though he didn't shut the door entirely.

Warner Home Video President Ron Sanders is quoted by Home Media Magazine today as saying that since his is the only studio remaining that is willing to support both formats, it may be unable to go forth with its plans to produce high-definition titles on its hybrid "Total HD" format.

Early this year, the video division of the studio announced its intention to premiere Total HD at CES 2007. When attendees arrived and when the HD DVD on one side, Blu-ray on the other side format didn't appear, confusion ensued.

It took the company until June to give a formal explanation for the delay, saying for the first time that the format was on hold. With the possibility left open for seeing Total HD in "early 2008," many came to the conclusion it might premiere at CES after all, just one year later.

Now, Sanders' comments have allayed those hopes early, telling the magazine that promoting Total HD "only makes sense for studios supporting both formats, and since Paramount went the other way and retail didn't push the issue, one studio isn't enough for us to pull the trigger."

The letdown comes as the DVD Forum proceeds with efforts to adopt version 2.0 of its 51 GB, triple-layer format championed by Toshiba. The first actual working version of the format, whose specifications were numbered Version 1.9, was approved last August 31.

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By Hocuspokus

edited Nov 21, 2007 - 7:01 AM

Paving the way for for Warner to go HD DVD exclusive (expect an announcement at CES in Jan?).

I see the idiot Sony/Blu-ray/PS3 shill-drone-fanboys still can't get their heads around what Viacom/Paramount actually said about costs in this.

To remind the idiot brigade - the additional costs Blu-ray production imposes removes much of the additional revenue those supposed additional sales generate.

Additionally they also understand only too clearly that Blu-ray's initial lead is solely being produced by taking a ride on the PS3 (a method which was guaranteed to give some sort of an intial lead, even if the PS3 is a flop in it's own market).

The ludicrously laughable fanboys can preach all they like but we've just seen head smurf Stringer come out and publicly admit it's all going very wrong for Blu-ray.

(which was quite a surprise given his - and the Blu side in generals - track record of exaggeration, lies and condescending bombastic BS.)

Score: 0

By superdynamite

posted Nov 30, 2007 - 3:33 PM

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 25th (Includes Black Friday)

http://www.nxtbook.com/n...s/ques...0207/index.php

WE: BD-72% HDD-28% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-62% HDD-38%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 18th

http://www.nxtbook.com/n...s/ques...2507/index.php

WE: BD-66% HDD-34% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 11th

http://www.nxtbook.com/n...s/ques...1807/index.php

WE: BD-65% HDD-35% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 4th

http://www.nxtbook.com/n...s/ques...1107/index.php

WE: BD-71% HDD-29% YTD: BD-64% HDD-36% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Score: 0

By marrix

posted Nov 23, 2007 - 11:35 AM

Hocuspokus,
Very nice to see some rational economics,so very eloquently expressed.
Cheers, mate!

Score: 0

By Setian^Stalker

posted Nov 23, 2007 - 12:46 AM

"Paving the way for for Warner to go HD DVD exclusive "

Thats an assumption

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Nov 23, 2007 - 9:44 AM

"Thats an assumption"

- No, it's a tip-off from sources I trust.

You (of course) have no way of knowing to decide differently, so fair enough, if you think it's just mere assumption I can understand that.

Score: 0

By Joey Deacon

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 12:49 PM

Sorry, you will be disappointed, There is only one way that Warner will be going, and it's Blu...

Score: 0

By superdynamite

posted Nov 30, 2007 - 3:44 PM

HD-DVD is getting absolutely CRUSHED by Blu-ray in sales this holday season. Look at the Nielsen numbers above.

Barring any crazy Microsoft Payoffs, Kick-backs or Bribes, Warner will be Blu in a month or two.

The thing is, I don't think the $150 million that Microsoft gave Paramount to support HD-DVD is covering the money they are not making by not selling blu-ray. In other words, Paramount would have made $500 million had they gone Blu.

Score: 0

By marrix

posted Nov 23, 2007 - 11:47 AM

Joey,
Once again you seem to miss a very pertinent point when it comes to being a shill.
I'm typing this on a Dell XPS1730 2X64SSD's 4GB memory, dual Nvidia SLI's, OS is XP Pro. This cost AUD7.3K, and 2 of the options I refused to get were the 2 Blo Ray ones.
Reason mate, your's, Dave's and all the other dudes with sharp hats tellin' me I gotta go Blo Ray, disabused me of any notion in this regard.
What the hell are you doing here?

Score: 0

By Setian^Stalker

posted Nov 23, 2007 - 12:46 AM

"There is only one way that Warner will be going, and it's Blu..."

Thats an assumption

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 1:55 PM

"Sorry, you will be disappointed,"

- Damn! but I'm looking forward to this working out and seeing you vanish from these boards in embarrassment.

"There is only one way that Warner will be going, and it's Blu... "

- Yeah, cos Stringer's recent pronouncements were really heavy on the positive, huh?

You're a moron fanboy, clearly you know f*ck all about this market.

Admit it, you 'love' a game console, that's as much as you really know about any of this.

You sad dreary f*ckwitted moron.

Score: 0

By Hollywood__

posted Nov 22, 2007 - 12:33 AM

Thanks Hocus,

I dont even have to comment on this story.

Score: 0

By plague201

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 1:06 PM

I'm definitely quoting you on that later on Davey!!

Score: 0

By Banquo

edited Nov 21, 2007 - 7:38 PM

Yep, this will be an even greater quote than his infamous "8 per store".

Score: 0

By wreckedchevy

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 3:25 AM

yea another fine example of why i picked hd-dvd the fanboys really need to clean up there act i seriously only went with the a2 because i won't support the same format as a bunch of immature punks running there mouths all over the net... people who don't know better are seeing those kind of comments and are going to do the same thing to.... so keep up the good work maybe toshiba will send you a cookie

Score: 0

By Joey Deacon

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 5:32 AM

Didn't Toshiba dump the price of the A2 to $99 because it's incompatible with the 51GB discs coming out soon?

LOL, Looks like that HD DVD player may be making it to the junk room sooner than you thought!!

Why else would Toshiba be keeping deadly silent on backwards compatability???

Score: 0

By superdynamite

posted Nov 30, 2007 - 4:07 PM

The 51GB disc DOES NOT work on ANY HD-DVD player that are currently on the market.

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 7:40 AM

Talk about desperation that is really reaching.

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 7:02 AM

"Didn't Toshiba dump the price of the A2 to $99 because it's incompatible with the 51GB discs coming out soon?

- No.

Next fact-free lie?

Score: 0

By pridewalker

edited Nov 21, 2007 - 5:59 AM

Keep dreaming there, Joey.

The fact is, Toshiba has had full bc with the triple layer discs all the way back when they were working on them as a 45gb disc.

James Armour, from Toshiba's optical storage division, stated at this year's CeBIT that the 3rd layer would be readable on existing players. While admitting that the 3rd layer would be harder to read, any errors that were encountered would be corrected by the machine; resulting in no loss of video or audio performance. A statement such as this can hardly be construed as 'deadly silent'.

Honestly, do you get off on being proven wrong constantly?

Score: 0

By Joey Deacon

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 12:48 PM

Errm 45GB and 51GB are different technologies.

Toshiba have never stated that 51GB discs will work in existing players. No why would they stay so quiet? Perhaps they want to dump their existing stock of players before lauching the new 51GB compatible ones..

Score: 0

By superdynamite

posted Nov 30, 2007 - 3:46 PM

The 51GB HHD DOES NOT work with any current HD-DVD player on the market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD#Disc_structure

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 1:35 PM

"Errm 45GB and 51GB are different technologies."

- Jesuz but you are an ignorant moron.

No they are not.

One (51gb) happens to be a development of the other (45gb) and actually turns out to have been easier to do than the original.

Idiot.

"Toshiba have never stated that 51GB discs will work in existing players."

- What you really mean here is that you neither know nor talk to the right people.

"No why would they stay so quiet?"

- They will be making a very public announcement on this very soon.

I'd listen up at CES if I was you, after all your BS you are in for a shock.

" Perhaps they want to dump their existing stock of players before lauching the new 51GB compatible ones."

- Prove it.

Just once provide something (anything) that even remotely backs up your idiotic assertions.

Of course you can't.
Cos when it comes down to it you have no clue how DVD Forum approval works or what it means.

You're just trolling your empty wannabe sh*te as per.

Score: 0

By superdynamite

posted Nov 30, 2007 - 3:47 PM

The 51GB HDD DOES NOT Work on ANY current HD-DVD consumer Models.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD#Disc_structure

Score: 0

By Joey Deacon

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 1:54 PM

"One (51gb) happens to be a development of the other (45gb) and actually turns out to have been easier to do than the original."

LOL, so 17GB per layer is easier to fit onto a disc than 15GB per layer? How does that work then? The pitch is closer, it's more tricky to track and focus.

Some people make such dumb statements.. If 17GB were easier, then why was HD DVD not 34GB when it launched sherlock?

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

edited Nov 21, 2007 - 3:20 PM

"LOL, so 17GB per layer is easier to fit onto a disc than 15GB per layer? How does that work then? The pitch is closer, it's more tricky to track and focus."

- Thank you for admitting you know nothing about this and the 'through layer' interference patterns that turn out to have made 51gb (@ 17gb per layer) easier to 'do' than 45gb (@ 15gb per layer).

"Some people make such dumb statements.."

- Wow, some self-realisation at last?

If only.

"If 17GB were easier, then why was HD DVD not 34GB when it launched sherlock?"

- This has to be one of your most stupid utterances yet
(and boy does it have some serious competition).

Yeah, why does anything ever get developed into something a little different & better to the way it was when it 1st started as the technologies (& sometimes hardware) involved mature?

In what kind of ignorant simplistic moronic world does that not happen ever?
......oh yeah, the ignorant idiot shill-drone-fanboy world.

F*ck me but you really are a thick blinkered Sony/PS3/Blu-ray shill-drone-fanboy moron.

BTW 34gb DL is coming too.

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 9:44 PM

Looks like he took his blocks and went home again.

Score: 0

By Banquo

edited Nov 21, 2007 - 7:10 AM

Why no, they didn't. They dropped it because it's a discontinued model. Keep spreading your FUD though you pathetic liar.

Only 8 per store!

Score: 0

By wreckedchevy

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 1:02 AM

amazon is selling a3 with 10 movies right now for $199 5 with purchase and 5 by mail-in
http://www.amazon.com/gp...F8&docId=1000167901

Score: 0

By Joey Deacon

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 12:48 PM

Wal-Mart is offering ten free Blu-ray movies of your choice with the purchase of an 80GB PS3. Deal begins at 8AM on Saturday, November 24th.

BJ's Wholesale Club is giving a $100 instant rebate on all their PS3 bundles from Friday-Sunday.

Meijer is giving a free game with purchase of any PS3 and any wireless controller.

Circuit City is giving away an extra SIXAXIS controller with purchase of the 40GB PS3.

Best Buy is giving away a copy of NBA 2K8 and Open Season on Blu-ray with purchase of the 40GB PS3.

Score: 0

By yountmj

posted Nov 25, 2007 - 2:41 AM

It doesn't matter who is offering the deal for the PlayStation 3 consoles. No one wants them... period.

I went to 3 different Wal-Marts after Thanksgiving, and all of them still had PlayStation 3 consoles waiting to be sold.

It's too bad Sony isn't offering a BOGO on the PS3. That's about the only way they're going to sell in any significant number this holiday.

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 7:39 PM

Wow, their desperation is building. Maybe they will start giving away televisions with them next...oh wait they already tried that. lmao

Score: 0

By bobthegoat2001

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 1:36 PM

Sounds like Sony's getting desperate. 'Here take the PS3 so we can count it as sold'!

Score: 0

By wreckedchevy

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 1:29 PM

actually if you check there site the sale on the ps3 disappeared and was replaced with a remote control dragonfly... and besides your still talking $399 versus $199 big difference to people on a budget... i thought you blu fanboys said that walmart customers were to poor to afford hd anyway?

Score: 0

By Banquo

edited Nov 20, 2007 - 8:58 PM

Warner will probably pick a side soon. Here's some interesting news too, Disney just voted to approve 51GB HD DVD media. A Blu-Ray only studio throwing support behind the other side, interesting isn't it. Could neutrality be next? Sure Warner is huge and their choosing a side will have a big impact, but if Disney goes neutral I think the game is over for BD.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/...DVD_Media_Approval.html

Score: 0

By superdynamite

posted Nov 30, 2007 - 4:06 PM

The DVD Forum Seering Committee aproved the "SPECS" for the 51GB HDD. Disney, Sony and 18 other companies are in the committee. http://www.dvdforum.org/about-steering.htm

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with Disney's exclusivity of the Blu-Ray Format.

The HD-DVD Propaganda machine would have you think it does though.

Also, the 51GB HDD is not compatible with ANY current HD-DVD players. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD#Disc_structure

If that's not enough, the 51GB HDD CANNOT be made to have HDD-R or HDD-RW capabilities.
**********************************************
Nielsen/VideoScan Weekly Sales Numbers

-----------------------------------------------------------

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 25th (Includes Black Friday)

http://www.nxtbook.com/n...s/ques...0207/index.php

WE: BD-72% HDD-28% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-62% HDD-38%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 18th

http://www.nxtbook.com/n...s/ques...2507/index.php

WE: BD-66% HDD-34% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 11th

http://www.nxtbook.com/n...s/ques...1807/index.php

WE: BD-65% HDD-35% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 4th

http://www.nxtbook.com/n...s/ques...1107/index.php

WE: BD-71% HDD-29% YTD: BD-64% HDD-36% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Score: 0

By mano1192

posted Nov 20, 2007 - 5:07 PM

No1 will pay that much for a movie, its rediculous. I say the first one who has dicounted discs at $15-20 the first week its out will pickup drastically in sales

Score: 0

By bsf

posted Nov 20, 2007 - 7:27 PM

sorry, we aren't all as cheap as you are.

Score: 0

By CMSTech

posted Nov 20, 2007 - 5:39 PM

sorry, I can't make out your comment from the shorthand and misspellings in there.

Score: 0

By superdynamite

edited Nov 20, 2007 - 4:43 PM

HD-DVD: The Universal loss for Movie Studios

100,000+ units a week in possible Transformers & Bourne Blu-ray Disc sales LOST by Paramount and Universal.

Can anyone say, "Morons"!!!

How dumb is the guy from Paramount who inked that deal for HD-DVD exclusivity with Microsoft? Or how about the guy from Universal that decided to go HD-DVD.

Do they still have their jobs?

Universal & Paramount are in the same sinking ship.

The "Universal Blunder" has a nice ring to it.

Merry Christmas Paramount & Universal. No bonuses this year!

Let's see if you are dumb enough to miss the 2008 Holiday season as well.

FYI: Movie studios that release HD-DVD format will forever be battling the bootleg market. Blu-Ray copy-protect security is too strong and is upgradable. HD-DVD is not!

Warner Bros. is too smart for that type of error. WB on BD is coming soon!

Score: 0

By superdynamite

posted Nov 30, 2007 - 3:32 PM

Nielsen/VideoScan Weekly Sales Numbers

----------------------------------------------

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 25th (Includes Black Friday)

http://www.nxtbook.com/n...s/ques...0207/index.php

WE: BD-72% HDD-28% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-62% HDD-38%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 18th

http://www.nxtbook.com/n...s/ques...2507/index.php

WE: BD-66% HDD-34% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 11th

http://www.nxtbook.com/n...s/ques...1807/index.php

WE: BD-65% HDD-35% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 4th

http://www.nxtbook.com/n...s/ques...1107/index.php

WE: BD-71% HDD-29% YTD: BD-64% HDD-36% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 7:20 AM

"100,000+ units a week in possible Transformers & Bourne Blu-ray Disc sales LOST by Paramount and Universal.

Can anyone say, "Morons"!!!"


- Can you get the concept of costs into your moronicly blinkered fanboy 'mind'?

Hilariously this is almost word-for-word the latest preaching BS the Blu-ray.com fools are kidding themselves with.

You'd almost think Stringer didn't just admit things are not looking good for Blu-ray at all, just recently.

(and if he's admitting "stalemate" - with his and their track record of lying BS - you can bet it's even worst for BD than they care to admit)

Score: 0

By WeezulDK

posted Nov 20, 2007 - 7:22 PM

Warner is starting to realize that there has to be a clear winner like DVD was and not support multiple format discs. It's a losing proposition to continue the hybrid format.

It makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever to have competing HD formats, not to mention that Blu-Ray really isn't going to make it in the long run. It's simply too expensive and already has the stigma of Sony attached to it.

The industry had a great idea backing DVD totally, now they need to pick a format (which my money's on HD-DVD) and stick to it.

Combo players make no sense, combo discs even less sense.

When it comes down to it, HD-DVD will eventually win because of price and a fully complete feature set that was not rushed to market like Blu-Ray was.

Score: 0

By Setian^Stalker

posted Nov 20, 2007 - 6:07 PM

You missed the exclusive blu-ray studios that are also missing out on sales, or is it that is your prefered format so you can only walk a narrow one way path.

Score: 0

By Niro

posted Nov 20, 2007 - 5:32 PM

Ha...this guy is hilarious. I'm pretty sure Paramount and Universal are pretty happy not having to pay the high cost of BD manufacturing...I'm sure it more then makes up for the potential few thousand dollars they lost on "potential" BD sales....sorry to hear you won't be watching those movies this holiday season, good luck finding something new to watch on your BD player.

Score: 0

By wreckedchevy

edited Nov 20, 2007 - 5:30 PM

wasn't there just 2 news articles about bd security first one saying it has been broken then another one about macrovision buying bd+ to hopefully be able to fix it???

and wouldn't the same rule apply to disney, fox, etc... they also are losing sales by only supporting blu

Score: 0

By MikeTechno

posted Nov 20, 2007 - 4:52 PM

If I was in the Blu-Ray camp I wouldn't be waving any victory flag here any time soon. Take a look at what just happened in terms of volume sales over the past several weeks with the recent price drops on the HD-DVD players.

Now watch what happens on Black Friday where the HD-DVD players are selling at $199 and the Blu-Ray players are selling at $399. Any idea which one is going to fly off the shelves at the retails stores? Easy math here guys.

Remember: consumers don't like copy protection schemes and they don't like high prices. They vote with their pocket books.

Score: 0

By BeyondYourFrontDoor

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 1:48 AM

So, HD-DVD doesn't have DRM? Hmmm... Blu-ray is here to stay - the only market still 'undecided' is the USA. Soon enough all the BD and HD-DVD discs we need will come from our good friends in China and THEY can make money on both formats, while we pay $5 a movie.

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 7:15 AM

"So, HD-DVD doesn't have DRM?"

- It has ACCS.

Which has been cracked (twice now)

Unlike Blu-ray HD DVD does not have BD+ or the watermarking hardware system.

" Hmmm... Blu-ray is here to stay"

- Indeed, for as long as the PS3 is around at least.
How else would they put games out on it?

"the only market still 'undecided' is the USA."

- No.

What you mean is that the only market that matters in this is the USA.

The US market is tiny but far larger than all the rest.

The 'war' is being fought out and decided in the US, actually.

"Soon enough all the BD and HD-DVD discs we need will come from our good friends in China"

- Wrong.

There are no licencing agreements between the Chinese and the Blu-ray CEs (Blu-ray was specifically designed so as not to go down that path).

All Blu-ray does in China is source components (look inside your PS3 or if you're one of the handful with a BD stand-alone look in that, it's full of 'made in China' components); but that is nothing like the same thing as HD DVD licencing Chinese companies 'reference designs'.

There is also no Blu-ray equivalent to the CH-DVD format (which is identical to HD DVD except for a badge on the case and a firmware).

The CH-DVD production in multi-millions will mean even greater economies of scale as their production ramps up further dropping the cost of HD DVD components (as well as some of the CH-DVD brands making their way to the western markets as those producers seek to maximise their profits).
This guarantees even lower entry level HD DVD players are coming.
Sub $100 HD DVD players by this late spring/early summer, bet on it.

" and THEY can make money on both formats, while we pay $5 a movie."

- Blu-ray production is too costly for Sony to keep on subsidising it indefinitely.

That's why Stringer had to admit what he did recently (the financial markets are not full of blind fanboys and Sony's not looking so good atm).
Stringer knows things are looking very bad for Blu-ray now and he's preparing people for worse news to follow.

When Warner go HD DVD exclusive the a/v market 'war' is over, and he knows it.

Dual format (if it really takes off) is as big a threat to Blu-ray as anything......if almost everyone has a dual format player why should anyone suffer the extra costs Blu-ray production imposes?

Score: 0

By pitdingo

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 12:13 PM

"The US market is tiny but far larger than all the rest."

huh?

Score: 0

By bobthegoat2001

posted Nov 21, 2007 - 1:46 PM

You forgot to put M$ Xbox 360 in your post.

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

edited Nov 21, 2007 - 2:33 PM

"Huh" nothing.

But do feel free to go ahead & provide details (in number terms) of how large you think the other high def disc markets actually are - right now - and compare them to the US high def markets numbers as they are right now.

If your seriously going to try and say (or imply) that the European high def market is currently larger than that of the USA then go ahead, post up the numbers.

Ditto Japan.

Ditto Australia.

You won't cos you'll end up looking stupid as you try to pull your usual lying wriggling BS and start pretending this is all about 'possible & potential markets'.

The truth is that this 'war' is being fought out in the USA.
Japan might (might) go it alone (afterall Sony kept Betamax on life support there until 2002) but even there HD DVD numbers are growing.

Score: 0

By timatl

edited Nov 20, 2007 - 4:22 PM

sounds like warner will be picking a side really soon. plus the disc would have cost the consumer about $45 or more

Score: 0