You folks make a great case for why porn is so popular on the internet.

Nothing much will change, apart from users discovering that Windows7 is actually very good, despite all the negativity and problems regarding Vista.

Heck, the only problem I had with Vista was its slow network copying.

As for Macs and Linux?

I recently gave Linux (Mint) another shot and discovered its still far from being any real use other than basic web/email. Linux is still (after all these years) seriously screwed for users; ATI drivers that don't work with Compiz or OpenGL correctly. No decent multimedia management or creation software; Lightroom etc. No decent video editing software. Still too techie.

Mac?
I'm typing this on a PPC G5 Dual with Leopard running. Apple Mail with IMAP still doesn't work correctly, Thunderbird 3.x does.
Still the same problem with Mac hardware, when any component fails or Apple tinker with the firmware to 'fix' memory issues that render your memory dead. You're scuppered. Personally my Hackintosh was a better experience and was less stressful than Linux to setup; at least the video worked 100% and I could use Motion etc (now there's an app that needs a Windows version).

Windows7 is the best that MS have released and will solidify MS' position as *the* desktop choice; and 2010 will be the year that business world s***s to Win7 (x64)/Office 2010. Most companies have held off Vista for the past two years and it has proved to be a sensible (or lucky) choice.

Meh - I've had the pleasure of supporting/installing/fixing every PC OS since DOS 2/Netware/Windows 3/Macs (since the late 80s)/OS/2 et al for corporates, run a mix of PC and Macs at home and Windows 7 is the best yet.

Some people really don't remember the awful birth of OSX and the crash happy world of Apple's previous OSs; OSXs' continual mess in the look and feel area. The rubbish that the Finder is.

Thankfully we get to choose (sort of) and I welcome our new Windows7 overlords :-)

IMHO, You are partially right. I have a similar background (DOS/Novell, Desqview, Windows 3, Mac OS, OS/2 only briefely, and then all the Windows 9x, and NT series.

Microsoft improved greatly with Windows 7, but you know what? Using windows I still miss simple things, like the Mac finder which put the focus exactly where I need it, 95% of the time! The root access (UAC) which works the way it needs to and all that things which make using a computer a pleasure. Yes, I know, when you have a problem or something Uncle Steve did not think of is a problem, but, most things do work, better.

Respect the look and feel, in Mac OS you have a consistent one! The menus are in the same place all the time. The settings always in the same place, everything where you need it logically and simple. With Windows and MS own software you may have menus hidden, pestilent ribbons which change all the time, you need to guess and search everywhere to find the program options, among different MS programs, that is a REAL mess! Microsoft did not make their UI consistent, and that is a problem. Look just at the Windows control panel! They changed it so many times that I lost the count! And of course, the classic is still the best one, another real mess!

@meh_life

I too am a mac and pc user. I have the latest macbook pro unibody. While I love the hardware a lot I have to say that I use my Windows 7 machine more because i like Windows 7 better and am more productive on it. Windows 7 has a ton of small niceties that make more elegant to use. Microsoft really executed on the user experience this time.

I have come to the conclusion that everything sucks.

Hey internet, I've been incredibly busy with custom work and just havent had a lot of time to come in here and spew my brand of nonsense. I see you are sticking to your guns which is admirable.

My XBOX360 Elite has taken a s*** for the second time in two years and is just out of warranty. My HP notebook is like an old person with organs failing one by one, I caught a virus (finally) but it was my fault and no on elses, Vista tried to warn me and I ****ed up.

I'd consider a Mac if I could get all the software I need to make a living to run flawlessly, but that will never happen. I need to be able to comminucate with a lot of devices via USB to upgrade firmware etc....

Anyways, I've been lurking around every once in a while but I havent been commenting.

May I kindly suggest you two get a room (and a jar of slighly warmed up vaseline)?

WTF. hehehehehehehehehehehe

You love me, iTard7. You know it... ;)

Sorry but I think you meant to directing your comment toward PC_Tool. I hear he's in to stuff like that.

Of course I do. :-)

Sure there are no virus on the Mac yet but that is not the only harm to come to a machine. The question is are they hackable?

I use both mac and PC. PC for business and mac for social life.

The Mac Fatty just bought his aunt!!! hehehehehehe

WHERE'S MUH MUHNEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Anything and i mean anything is hackable. software by nature is all hackable. windows is the big dog with the massive market share and thus is the main target cause most people look at the big guys as evil. so they mess with them to make them look bad. Being in the IT field i know, nothing is safe. hackers target what will get them the most exposure. and iphone is apple, stripped down os or not. and not just hackable but jailbreakable. send me 500 bucks.

Keep dreaming, Mac lovers. If you play dirty like us (by that I mean INSTALL PIRATED SOFTWARE ON YOUR MACHINE), then you're BOUND to get hacked sooner or later.

http://arstechnica.com/a...ac-botnet-is-active.ars

"Evidence suggests first zombie Mac botnet is active.
Security researchers have discovered that payloads delivered by trojans in pirated versions of iWork and Photoshop earlier this year are being used to create a Mac botnet."

Why not doing a search for the "PWN 2 OWN" hacker competition?

You may have missed it... head in the sand, and all that jazz.

"MacBook Air Seized In 2 Minutes Flat"...

"Safari Down In 10 Seconds"...

ignorantworld7: Charlie Miller: Snow Leopard is less secure than Vista and 7: http://www.neowin.net/ne...ess-secure-than-windows

BTW he was the one to nail down that crap os x with seconds in the hacking contest!! That was for the second time in a row!!

hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

That's okay. Truth comes out regardless. So you can go ahead and convince everyone around you that the Mac is the "perfect machine" and within a year they'll get MAJORLY DISAPPOINTED THAT IT AIN'T SO BY ANY STRETCH OF THE WORD "PERFECT" (or "unhackable" or "unfallible" or "most-friendly" or whatever smelly BS we've been hearing all these years).

They'll come back home to a Windows machine and learn to ignore anything you tell them from that point on. Your credibility - gone forever.

When that happens, I'll be doing EXACTLY what I've started out doing:

hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

OSX hacked in seconds this year, minutes the previous year in the 'pwn to own' contest : http://www.urban75.net/v...showthread.php?t=283403

hee hee. This statement will come back and haunt you one day.

At the last black hat convention in Vegas the Mac was the first one to fall. Even BetaNews wrote about it.

Actually I use Windows XP to support most of the technical applications I use in my engineering consulting business. They includes Spice, MathCAD, Mathematica, AutoCAD, PC Board layout software and a number of other items. The rise of virtual machine technology makes it unnecessary to choose between Windows or MAC applications. I can choose to have MAC, Windows and Linux on the same machine and share data seamlessly. There are many powerful free open source applications available for OS X and Linux without flying the Jolly Roger. They save money.

Mathematica is now available for OS X so I will likely switch platforms soon for this application. There are several versions of Spice for OS X but they are not competitive in capability at this point. Apple is the dominant laptop platform in the US except for the low end of the market (netbooks) so I expect the high end applications to follow. Netbooks are not used for serious work and desktop computers are rapidly becoming a niche market. Mobility without loss of capability is the name of the game in the future.

One area where there has been very little activity is anti-virus software for the MAC. We all have our explanations for why it is not needed. I am happy that it is so secure. Linux is built on a similar robust base and is used for most high end website servers due to being more secure. I wonder why the bad boys avoid them?

Apple, the dominant laptop? Dude, not even the most ignorant Mac fanboy buys that. Last year a particular Dell model (I forget which) slightly exceeded the TOTAL number of Macbooks shipped. Nice try on the stealth partisanship, btw - you clearly put a fair bit of time into it, but you still fail.

First with regards to the "LOADED QUESTION". I'm not made of money for one. I built my system myself and i purchased vista(OEM version). But the rest of the software i use is either freeware(7zip), or from torrents. I have a steam account so i do pay for alot of games, but not all the games i play are paid for. The regular old software i use is not paid for. Why you may ask. Cause it should be included with windows. And i am sure it would be if microsoft was allowed to. But there's always someone crying that microsoft is cutting out the little guy by including there software for free. Antivirus is a big one. Not only do the paid one suck, but they should cost a dime. some dont i know, but nonetheless they suck. I use Microsoft Security Essentials right now cause it's light on resources and seems to be working. I'm sure like anything else it will fail me when i need it most. Considering the hundreds if not thousands you can spend on a pc, there shouldnt be a reason to buy anything else. it should all be there waiting for you.
With regards to apple and microsoft. Windows 7 is fantastic, i use it everyday. Apple fans have the right to like what they want. For them it's a culture not a option. If you still run windows XP you may not care about windows 7. cause chances are you just need a machine to web surf. My mom could care less what she's on, as longs as it gets her to ebay. Windows is king, that wont change no matter what apple does.
With regards to viruses/worms and malware. We live in a world filled with idiots who love to make people hurt. Microsoft is the biggest target ONLY cause of it's marketshare, NOT cause it's less secure. There shouldn't be people out there trying to infect other peoples systems with trash. That's just child like behavior that makes no sense.

I am intrigued by part of Joe's article title: "Windows 7 common sense". Isn't that an oxymoron? I'm sorry. I didn't mean to follow Joe down the low road.

All of the reports I've read indicate that this is the best version of Windows yet. My limited testing of RC1 would tend to confirm a solid stable OS. I would point to three factors that should temper the enthusiasm: 1) there appear to be some software incompatibilities (not the end of the world but some third party software vendors may need to provide updated versions), 2) Most Windows users have Windows XP and there is no upgrade path. A clean install followed by a reinstall of all applications is required. This is likely to be even more painful for individual users than for corporations that can do an automated remote load of all relevant software along with the OS & 3) It is still Windows with a Registry and will likely attract viruses/worms/malware like flies.

I should clarify one point. There is actually one upgrade path from XP. You can always upgrade to Vista and then upgrade to Windows 7 but this sounds like punishment to me. This assumes adequate hardware to support Windows 7. If you are buying a new machine and want Windows, choosing Windows 7 seems to be a no-brainer.

Much has been made of the potential data loss on MACs associated with guest accounts that predate Snow Leopard. I can understand why this would be perceived as a big deal since significant problems are so rare on OS X. No operating system is completely free of problems. OS X problem history compares quite favorably with the Windows experience (see "Patch Tuesday").

I will be installing Windows 7 on my MacBook Pro in a Fusion virtual machine at some point. I will be maintaining a copy of Windows XP in a different virtual machine for the forseable future. Windows still has far more scientific and technical applications and applications are the real reason people use computers (not the operating system, however good or bad). I reduce my dependence on Windows where possible and look forward to the day when I can cut the cord. Until then I am very happy to see a better Windows.

Beautiful post. I'll try to keep it short and sweet:

1.) I would say the incompatibilities are minor, actually. It is compatible with all software that is vista compatible and has increased it's compatibility with older apps from XP to a much greater degree than Vista ever did. Sure, there are still some hold-outs. They've had 3 years to get compatible with Vista, if they are not yet....why is anyone using them? (And this goes for any software...even the few MS apps that never got updates).

2.) I don't think upgrades are going to be as big an issue as people are making them out to be. Most folks with XP will likely stick with it until they buy a new system or move off of Windows entirely. That said, they have released with Windows 7 the best "Files and Settings Transfer/WET" yet. They did a decent job on this one from the reviews of it I have read and the minimal testing I have done with them. Unfortunately, I store my data off of the system partition, so there wasn't much testing to be done.

3.) With UAC defaults, the built-in firewall, and account protections, this will be much less. I ask you, where are the big viruses affecting Vista users? Windows 7;s protections are even greater (though I personally think they should have remained "draconian" on the UAC issue.

"OS X problem history compares quite favorably with the Windows experience (see "Patch Tuesday")."

Source?

I have been running OS X along side XP for the last two years. I have dutifully added the Windows patches on Patch Tuesday after Patch Tuesday. I always approve the patches as they are installed so I see the number of total/critical patches. OS X received 11 major fixes during that time and a few additional ones to address specific issues. XP needed 13 patches (many critical) just last Tuesday. I don't know the detailed patch history of Vista since I haven't used it. It appears that the corporate world has decided Vista is bad and they have not moved to it. XP still has almost 70% of the Windows market. If Vista was a success, Windows 7 would not have appeared as soon as it did.

I suspect that Windows 7 is a very strong contender. I will be using it and I absolutely want a robust OS to run critical engineering applications. I hope they have seriously bullet-proofed it. I am tired of the BSOD although it is not quite so bad running it under OS X. I just recycle the virtual machine and I am back in business without losing the work I am doing on the MAC side. I trust Walt Mossberg at WSJ and he says Windows 7 is the real deal. That is good enough for me.

Source == inarguable reality.

Still can't keep that knee from jerking, even towards "beautiful" (i.e. 90% pro-Windows) post, eh, Toolie?

"If Vista was a success, Windows 7 would not have appeared as soon as it did."

Microsoft is now back to their standard dev schedule, which existed prior to Vista. Windows 7's release only appears *rushed* to those with short memories.

@psycros: If you can't contribute anything other than trolls, don't bother.

The real question is: what can we expect from Windows 7 in terms of needed patches (security and otherwise)? We don't have long to wait to see the initial situation. I have to be honest and say that the task Microsoft faces is more difficult than Apple't OS X QC requirement. The stunning breath of hardware they support makes for a tremendous quality control task. All operating systems face birthing pains. We need to give them some time to get through the initial shake-down cruse. No amount of beta testing can find all issues that general availability will surface. I sincerely wish them success.

@PC_Tool: You seem to be a thoughtful reasonable person. It has been pleasant discussing these topics with you.

Hopefully they've done gathered some decent data from the TechNet installs out there since RTM. To be honest, I can recall one, possibly two updates to RTM since it hit TechNet that weren't "malicious software removal tools" or "Microsoft Security Essentials Definition Updates".

I seem to have misplaced my crystal ball, unfortunately, so we'll just have to cross our breath and hold our fingers for GA day. ;)

Is this the last conventional Windows OS release? Are we about to move to "the cloud"? Is that really a workable option?

Win8 is already in development and feature/core plans for Win9 are being made.. As always, talk regarding the "Death of Windows" is much ado about nothing.

http://windows8news.com/

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2559

http://www.pcworld.com/b...s_8_details_emerge.html

Quoted from the last link:

"According to Microsoft's plans to release a new desktop version of Windows every three years, Windows 8 is scheduled to become available in 2012."

Great news! I hope it arrives before the end of the world. =)

Nah, Dec 13th.

Sorry -

I wouldn't necessarily expect Microsoft to lead a robust move to the cloud. If it happens, the primary driving forces may come from elsewhere with Google a major player. Microsoft is working on cloud-resident applications now but the extent of feature completeness is yet to be determined.

It is not clear to me that the cloud is a viable alternative. It has the attractive feature that file synchronization would potentially no longer be an issue. The latest data would be accessible from anywhere. What happens if your internet provider has an outage? If you must maintain more than a rudimentary capability to work off-line, it seems to defeat the purpose.

Perhaps a hybrid environment may develop where the light duty computer usage moves to the cloud initially and the heavy duty work does not. Perhaps (further into the future) individual companies will host cloud servers to allow more comprehensive mobile access to applications & data. Potentially one wouldn't need much more than a netbook and high speed internet access on the client side even for heavy duty work. It sounds like a next generation client-server scheme that could be operating system independent (at least on the client side). If you build it (and it works), they will come.

"It is not clear to me that the cloud is a viable alternative. "

I would say that is a good opinion to have...since I share it.

Security, privacy, and accessibility are but a few of the larger hurdles that I do not believe cloud computing can ever adequately overcome for any use but that of personal users and/or non-confidential/non-financial/non-personally identifiable information.

You ignorant Mac fan boys need to see this:

Why is John Hodgman smiling? Data loss isn't the only Snow Leopard problem:

http://www.betanews.com/...pard-problem/1255449896

Charlie Miller: Snow leopard is less secure than Vista and 7:
http://www.neowin.net/ne...ess-secure-than-windows

THAT'S DAMN FUNNY. The new Vista OS X will soon melt!!

That's "Mac OS X Leopard - Second Edition". =)

Funny, he says macs are less secure, but then says they are safer for users and recommends people buy a Mac over a PC.

http://www.appleinsider....safer_than_windows.html

oh finally these ignorant crap fan boys are here. Oct. 22 your endangered os will start melting and WINTER ISN'T GONNA HELP IT!!

snow leopards cant melt :P

This site has degenerated into a free-for-all. There is some serious need of active moderation by site administration. I cannot take this site seriously anymore after taking the poorly written articles and "out of control" comments into consideration.

WTH?

Quote p3x935
"This is the exact reason why I am never coming here again. I came of of lurking just long enough to be disgusted by the whole lot of you. Bye!"

...and that should have been that, right? But no, you'd rather stick around, whine a bit more, and tell everyone here how it *should* be done, hmmmm?

Again, where did anyone ask for your help, or for that matter, your opinion? If this site sucks so much, what the fraking hell are you doing here? It's not like anyone asked you to be here. Are you seriously that bored you have to not only browse a site you don't like...but then post comments about how much you hate it? Troll much?

Dude... find another site. I hear there are billions of them.

*LAUGHING*

Still here....

Why?

What have you added to this topic (the only topic I've ever seen you post in)?

Let's see....Ah, yes...whining. That's it. One topic. One attitude. Nothing informative, helpful, or hell, even relevant.

...and you're calling me a windbag. Scroll through my posts in this topic and others. Keep in mind that this topic was purely for entertainment purposes from the get-go. The majority of them are in fact, helpful (When it's not a response correcting the statements or pointing out the failure of logic of some idiot such as yourself). Sadly, there are a lot of idiots here.

You copped an attitude the moment you made your first post here, and you've done *nothing* but whine since you did it. You certainly have not made the least amount of effort to try and lead by example, have you?

Nah...just easier to b****, right?

As for my menial, dead end job? I hate to inform you, but last I checked, Burger-King didn't provide employees with 24/7, on-the-job, unmanaged internet access. :) Fun that you chose the "job" bit to try and take a stab at me though... feeling a little trapped in your current position, are you?

So you hate the site, you hate the users...and you're still here. Should that make sense to anyone? Does it make sense to you?

Call me whatever you want. I really couldn't care any less what some anonymous ass-hat on teh intarwebz thinks of me (in case you haven't noticed). But you're still a complete moron for coming back and making post after post defending your hatred for a site you could just....never come back to. You know, like you said you were going to...but didn't.

What exactly did you expect, genius?

Imagine for a moment that this is a bar. The people who frequent this establishment generally get along and have fun.

Someone walks in and tells them all they suck and that they'll never come back. Then they hang around a while, copping this "Holier than thou" attitude and telling everyone exactly what they are doing wrong.

I suppose in your mind we should have welcomed you with open arms and there should have been hugs all around?

Go stuff yourself.

Real mature tool, real mature.

Good god, man....get over yourself already.

Maturity? Oh please... Your posts here are the equivalent of a pre-school kid popping his head in the door saying, "I don't like you, nah-nah-nahnah-nah-nah!" every five seconds. Yeah...whew. You got me beat

You said you hated the site and were never coming back. Please, stand by your word.

"I'm sorry you can't handle that and had to tell me to go away. "

I didn't. You said you were never coming back. ...and you haven't left yet. I was merely suggesting you honor your word.

FYI: I agree wholeheartedly re; the site. The site has gone downhill dramatically. The difference? Though I have brought up the fact occasionally, I also contribute. You've done nothing but b****. ...and then b**** more about how you were treated for doing nothing but b****.

...and surprise, surprise, here you are again saying you're going to go away (again) because *you* are tired of all the b****ing.

Oh, another point I agree with: You not posting. Definitely a good policy...unless you have something better than the equivalent of, "You all suck!" to contribute. :)

Have a nice day.

Fat American?

*laughing my a** off*

You have never seen me. We have never met. ...and yet here you are claiming you know something about my appearance. Just like everything else you "know", eh?

Sorry, fathead. You know nothing about me.

Toolbar infections AND trojans on Vista?? Sorry, fatso, but there ain't a cure for stupidity. Thank you SO MUCH for taking care of your aunt's needs absolving us of her retardation. I give your dearly beloved aunt approx 6 weeks before she manages to infect her iPhone with the extremely rare iPhone virus while simultaneously getting her laptop pwned by Russian Mac zombie farmers. Good luck my boy!

Thumbs DOWN!!

"I had no idea Macs were so much nicer" - obviosuly she cared more about aesthetics

Let me take a quote from PC Tool here:

"Say it with me, One makes money in hardware, One makes money in software"

Apple overcharges for hardware, microsoft for software. Neither is really better than the other. You are just led to believe that mac is better because all mac ads do is attack windows rather than pointing out what they do well.

how's the guest account doing ? :)

Running a Mac is not a choice; it's a religion. That alone obviates the title of the article and the possibility of it ever occurring.

honestly, I really wanna try WIN7 now.. up until today I used Vista/XP on VM right on SL, I just dont want to spend any $$! Anybody know where I can get a trial copy of WIN7?? I missed the boat on the MS free download since they took it down :(

I understand the key will let you run win7 until March2010! i'm ok with that.

"Needs more than a pretty shell to get us going."

This is why I constantly disagree with you, mj.

It's not the fact that you didn't get the pricing right. It's not the fact that your "speed" measurements are totally unfounded and unsourced.

It's that you make general statements like this that imply Windows 7 has nothing more to offer XP users than a"pretty shell", or that there is only one solution to slow boot times/large numebrs of startup items...(if you can recall back that far)

I know you are in the IT industry. I know you have done more homework than following the "latest" 6 year-old troll comments. I know you know that Windows 7 is more than just a "pretty shell".

The only assumption one can be left with is that you are purposefully making these statements to elicit an argument. (Most people call that trolling...)

Yeah, wow. 8.8% US market-share.

Yeah, those are indeed some awesome numbers...

how's your guest account ?

To XP Fanboys: XP wont be around forever, face the music!!!!!!

XP is gonna be around for at least 10 more years, simply because it will be the latest Windows OS which will remain easily pirated. Microsoft will eventually be forced to sell AND SERVICE older OS's in (at least) Europe for a "fair price" meaning no more than $20 per old copy of Windows 7 (when newer versions are out) since everyone and their dog knows that Microsoft charges American OEMs approx $50/license and also has sold directly to customers at $150 for 3-license family pack and $50 for pre-sale individual licenses.

In other very simple words, Microsoft won't be able to rape the European market in order to subsidize their legal bills in the region for far longer. The EU commission will VERY SOON force Microsoft's prices there to be very close to American prices, and again, will also force Microsoft to continue selling and servicing older OSs FOR ROUGHLY $20/license. You're a monopoly installed on every PC in existence, you get some public punishment...

That will obviously has the direct effect of increasing prices to American customers which will be a good thing in the end, as it'll strenghten competition. It's actually easier to compete with a $70 Windows than with a $50 Windows...

Oh comon, Microsoft should be raping the EU market. Its called payback to the EC.

I think you should just take few moments to 1) catch your breath and 2) buy some lube to assist you in pulling your head out of your ass. As i read your comment i was able to see no substance, no meat to your arguments. It appeared as a child’s angry post about a toy he accidently broke.. You should probably find an opportunity to "try" a product before you knock it. I've examined a many Mac systems and I’ll agree they function in a very stable manor. I understand that this probably feels like you stepped out into a war when creating your post in the windows grounds, but to be honest, its posts like yours which will in no way persuade anyone to consider purchasing a mac, but instead realize how conceited mac users can be. Perhaps you should set some time alone, in your closet, with Wi-Fi and meditate with Windows 7. Perhaps after you realize what you've said you could send a nice little apology letter to Microsoft, who knows maybe they’ll send you a cookie. I cant help but reiterate what pisses me off about posts like those. A majority of the time the one practicing their “doctorate like posts”, have yet to give the opposing OS a chance. Next time you post something, perhaps it should be more meaningful then a little boys tantrum.

Every country in the world is built upon greed, theft, and MURDER. You think the original inhabitants of YOUR COUNTRY freely left?? hahahaha

Cut the pseudo-moral stand. No company in the world is as moral, or as least-immoral (if you wanna call it) as Microsoft...

In a hundred years Microsoft is one of the only companies we know today that will survive. They'll get their hands in everything eventually... They know what you and I know -- desktop OS will become less and less lucrative and they'll start doing new things, possibly buying AMD or some other almost-bankrupt-but-damn-good-patent-portfolio- hardware company. That's the benefit of being the richest software company in the world -- you can afford to throw around cash trying new things and even if 9 of 10 fail, the 1 that makes it big more than compensates for the lost money...

19 lines vs 27 lines of rock solid bloc a's***. Talking 'bout catching your breath..I wouldn't... Not until spraying some Glade first, at least!

Everything you say bears more resemblance to Google than M/S.

Odd, I would say Apple is full of the exact same arrogance as MS, and with far less reason to actually be arrogant.

No operating system software is all good and none is all bad. A common sense discussion of the pros & cons of each helps all of us to weigh our options. We can learn from each other. As I have said in a previous post, people buy computers and operating systems in order to run applications. Want more market share? Deliver top notch applications at a reasonable price. If you build it, they will come.

I personally prefer OS X. It is built on Unix and that is as good as it gets. It's market share is radically smaller than Windows. However, there is one aspect of OS X market position that I find intriguing. OS X has a dominant position among US laptops costing > $1,000. The suggestion has been made that this is because the MAC customer base consists of people who have a lot of money and are buying eye candy. I think this ignores the impact of virtual machine technology. MACs can run Windows and run it extremely well. This means that potential MAC users no longer have to look longingly at the latest machines and say no because they are handcuffed to their Windows applications. This is precisely the position I found myself in for years until Parallels and Fusion arrived.

I use high end engineering software and need a very reliable high performance system that maintains heavy duty design/analysis capability at my fingertips wherever I am. I suspect this is a substantial and growing user base. I expect the high end applications will follow the high end market share.

I have no intention of trashing those who prefer Windows. What's the point? I don't have all the answers and neither do they. Let's talk.

"Why did Microsoft release a desktop/notebook OS (with a nod to touch) when those platforms are on the way out?"

Ok, I disagree they are on the way out, and just this week I have seen over 20 new laptop and netbook releases that have touch screen, and that is not even counting the TabletPCs.

However, you assume Win7 is only for Desktops and Netbooks, why? Windows Embedded (yes the full NT kernel version of Windows) runs on everything from routers to appliances. (And No this is not WinCE)

You also seem to have missed the whole TabletPC transition 7 years ago, and the UMPC movement 4 years ago, which is the pre-cursor to things like the iPhone. (UMPCs are like the iPhone, but actually run the full version of Windows, so you can touch and Write on the screens, etc. )

It kind of scares me sometimes that people finally SEE the mobile and portable convergence of devices, and yet when Microsoft was literally fighting for people to pay attention to this movement almost 10 years ago, most of these same users didn't get it, or thought MS was stupid.

This is what brought about the TabletPC technologies, and the UMPC platforms that MS literally had to financially help support initially because people didn't think they would be carrying around one device for everything, and still have it be a full computer.

The iPhone is not a full computer, it a basic kernel with a limited platform API sitting on it, it is NOT OS X, it is more like XNU/Darwin with a psuedo GUI platform API. WindowsCE/Windows Mobile technically crushes the iPhone architecture and development platform, and it is a dated and crap OS designed for PDAs and the 'first' Netbooks of the 1990s.

Seriously, though, go look up Windows Embedded, and the new Win7 Embedded, you would be surprised how many things in your home even are running a real and 'full' version of Windows XP Embedded, let alone Win7 Embedded being the final move to converge a full OS into portable devices and I'm not talking about WinMo7 either.

Buddy, It's operating, not operation.

Go that mac user spell check!

"Windows is still your grandfather's operation system..."

That is true. Because most peoples grandfather's haven't even heard of a Mac. I will clue you in. It is because that tiny little market share compared to Windows. *tear*

guys you know that I am a SOB and a MOFO, so please forgive me for my ignorance

Well, you once again needed grammar check to realize that you do NOT randomly capitalize the first letter of a random word in a sentence.

Well everything has been perfect with my clean install of SL. And I didn't lose any data or setting after logging into the guest account. Both SL and Windows 7 are great OS! As I have both PC and Mac!

LOL it just works? yea it just works at loosing your data LOL

You never get spyware, viruses, trojans and keyloggers from a normal PC operations. i.e. not running random pirated softwares and etc..

"I'd like to compare this bug to the hundreds of millions of PC's that have been infected with spyware, viruses, trojans and keyloggers"

Of course you would like to compare a bug that involves zero 3rd-party involvement to software designed to attack and compromise systems.

Why, how could the two *not* be compared? Oh, wait....because they are completely different things.

Funny that....

What shall I say? Am more fan of Linux distributions but am using Mac and Windows Operating Systems for past 10years?

First of all if Mac would of been that great everyone even on business side would use it but due to complications with many stuff you just can't and let's face it it's ridiculously expensive for what you are getting.

2.6ghz , 4gb ram with 300-500gb hd = $2.000 I could build that for $500 or better yet I could buy PC for $800.

Windows 7 will probably cause some errors just like any Windows OS at the begging, and than SP1, SP2 comes a long too...
But see just like guy above/below said if you know how to use pc for your preferences there should not be any security problem if you know how to keep your system clean. Now people are lazy to do fragments, registry cleanups, virus scans on daily basis at 2am and firewall+ router protection...those things secure windows.

I use Mac for graphical stuff , i mean no other OS gives me really crispy pictures and editorial tools as Mac OS does not even my favorite Linux distro with favorite editor "Gimp :)"

Linux is I think my favorite because of the stability, control-ability and because it's up for 3 years now without reboot :) , I worked at ISP we only used FreeBSD and RH enterprise editions
1 RH Enterprise Server (Build by Broadbus) replaced 43 good HP, Dell Servers now imagine how much money we saved? We paid for it 1.6 million dollars for it but in fact we repaid that within months due to ability ....trust me there is not Mac OS or Windows OS that could of done the job that RH Boxes can....so for business as far as the "IT" stuff goes I am again in favor of *Nix boxes.

Overall , article is good I like the fact that you mentioned some of the data,
I like the fact that you knew that there are some hardcore Starbucks Social Media Mac visitors coming yet you still wrote "Mac Fanboys" :)

You know how I look at Mac, Windows and Linux?

Mac= Twitter
Windows= MySpace
Linux= Facebook

Those are three social networks that have one thing in common "Gain more audience" yet they all are in someway different and in some way same....

Dude I wrote too much! I think I wrote more than you did in Best Article of BetaNews! Which made me actually click on RSS Feeds to read comments!

Sh** now that I read my comment, I really suck at English :) should of spell check that and read twice before I clicked "Post Your Comment"

My bad!

Mispeling happens. Don't sweat it. Interesting note.

This has to be a joke....unfortunately, it's just not a very funny one.

Amend to "ususually just works" and I could agree. No system is perfect. And it remains to be seen what will happen with the average Win7 user. As someone else here put it, the pc slows down with all the extra crap that either sneeks onboard or that you load. Thinking it over, I think he is right. So someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but my working theory is that one of the main reasons Macs work so smoothly is because the average Mac user doesn't add too many miscellaneous apps. They are generally satisfied with what Mac developed for the platform already. PC_Tool, dereknc, Xel3 care to chime in on that?

So this just works?

http://www.pcmag.com/art...2/0,2817,2354228,00.asp

Well, from what I can see apple doesn't have a simple feature of just allowing whatever program to startup...whereas in Windows there is a specific option to have it added at startup so it loads when the pc runs.

So Windows 7 doesn't get slower because of use it gets slower like any operating system would if you try starting 80-90 processes when the pc starts up.

Thanks, that explains it better. Didn't know about the lack of auto startups in MAC.

Sure it does --- there are login items and there are other mechanisms through launchd for starting stuff at machine startup

Sorry, don't quite follow.

Mac is the computer platform, so it didn't develop anything. ;)

there is an autostart menu in SL

"And yes, we've had all of Windows 7s 'new' features for years."

Really? When did Mac OSX get AD Domain authentication, Group Policy management, and DirectX? (to name a few...)

"And yes, we've had all of Windows 7s 'new' features for years."

"When did Mac OSX get AD Domain authentication, Group Policy management, and DirectX? "

"OSX had support for LDAP and OpenGL from day one."

Sing it with me, folks:

One of these things is not like the other....

I'm sure Windows 7 will be great on a brand new computer. However, after the first, I'd say month, it will be another slow to boot and load, error message prone windows machine that have plagued Windows machines since their debut.

Yeah...the "windows rot" seems to have been removed starting with Vista.

Actually your wrong. I got a copy of the signature edition (for doing a launch party) and its FANTASTIC. I upgraded from Vista 64 bit to Windows 7 64 bit. Seamless and fast. Much quicker then Vista.

Ok, I understand that this was an opinion piece, but my first reaction reading this was "My god, has Betanews been handed over to trolls?!" Opinion pieces even have standards of conduct, this was just blatant name-calling and unprofessional-ism at its worst. I can't say I want to see this type of "journalism" on here again, and may have to reconsider my opinion of Betanews as a reliable news source.

@p3x935, @Ifmmoura So how would you have written it?

The post is intentionally biting, yet supported by real data and analysis--something hugely missing from many recent Mac blog posts or Mac news stories about Windows 7. With just minor changes, I could have filed this story as an "article" rather than "Viewpoint." I want to incite discussion and debate and add some reason to the ridiculous Mac-PC debate.

Apple's future isn't the Mac anyway, which is another reason the Mac-PC debate is pointless. It's App Store/iPhone/iPod touch or nothing. Microsoft's mobile strategy is a disaster headed to ruin, by comparison.

My views don't necessarily represent those of Betanews. Please don't dump the site because of one writer.

@joewilcox. If you can't see how this "viewpoint" was unprofessional, then I cannot help you.

I don't recall seeing where he asked for anyone's help, p3x935.

@PC_Tool. Yep you are SO RIGHT! This is the exact reason why I am never coming here again. I came of of lurking just long enough to be disgusted by the whole lot of you. Bye!

*laughing*

Wait, wait...

You came out of lurking for an article that was *screaming* flame-bait....and expected something *other* than flames?

Let me guess: You are constantly disappointed by getting wet in the rain instead of a sunburn, right?

Wow. I just can't seem to find any pity for ya. The title of the article alone should have been a dead give-away that reason was not going to be seen in this topic....and lurking, you might have noticed that JW articles are absolutely notorious for this style of "writing".

"Microsoft's mobile strategy is a disaster headed to ruin, by comparison."

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Windows Mobile will EAT EVERYONE ELSE ALIVE IN 5 SHORT YEARS. The best mobile OS is happening right before our very eyes. Some, apparently, need corrective lenses...

"The best mobile OS is happening right before our very eyes. Some, apparently, need corrective lenses..."

He's actually right, you know. It's called "Android". :)

Android is about the gayest thing since Richard Simmons hehehehehehehehe

Windows Mobile will kill everything in the mobile market. It's called BEAUTIFUL INTEGRATION WITH MS OFFICE, AND YOUR MANY MANY OTHER WINDOWS-DESKTOP'S HOME FUN STUFF *AND* OFFICE CRITICAL APPS. Google can go spend some more cash on lame-ass Notebook "OS's" they steal from Unix.

bye don't let the web browser crash on your way out!

The article has some good points, but is so unnecessarily passionate that it sounds a lot like the fanboys it criticizes. I thought journalism was about facts. I guess I was wrong. All in all, Apple hasn't been a threat to Microsoft in the OS arena for quite some time, and that's not going to change. Much like Apple fans aren't going to give up using Apple products just because MS has a good OS out. It takes a lot more than that. But one of the positive points of the article is the mention of netbooks. Netbooks have the potential of making users get in touch with Linux releases which are getting friendlier and friendlier. And as the world moves more and more into the online camp, the OS will lose much of its relevance. And a free alternative starts to look more and more attractive when the differences are blurred.

Vista works great for me, ever since SP1. I was gonna try Win7, but ms decided to remove the test build on there website.

I recently bought a mac...LOVE IT. I'm not a windows fanboy or a macfanboy I'm a tech fanboy...

Having both Vista/MAC running side by side on Fusion2 is key!!

I might be a PC user, but you sir are a tool of your own kind. Please stop runing jouralism with your bias-as-fox remarks of "how much better windows 7 is" and "Mac fanboys should worry and circle together in defensive posture."

Dispite your sources, graphs and charts, your article sucks and you should go back to highschool and take your journalism class over again. Obviously your teacher didn't show you how to write.

Before you go insulting someone on their "jouralism", you might want to work on your spelling first...

This is called a viewpoint and if you use the google it fits in with what a viewpoint is

View point

1. a place affording a view of something; position of observation: to sketch a river from the viewpoint of a bluff.
2. an attitude of mind, or the circumstances of an individual that conduce to such an attitude: new marketing techniques seen from the consumer's viewpoint.
Origin:
1855–60; alter. of point of view, modeled on standpoint

Synonyms:
2. standpoint, perspective, position, stance, angle.

Spell-checking is for the Chief and Editor. Writing the story is for the journalist.

God forbit I leave out an "n" in "journalism"

err.. correction.. i think 'forbid' is the right word.. not 'forbit' :)

The last time I had to reformat a computer in my household was in the early days of WinXP, Pre SP1. I have used multiple MS operating systems since my time in the computing industry, from 3.1 to 95/98/98SE/98TE(ME), NT, 2000, XPSP1/2, Server + 2k3, Longhorn Betas, and Vista. Currently running Vista and you couldn't pay me to downgrade to XP again. I don't know why people have had so many problems with operating systems in general over the years. I must be the luckiest software user in the world, as I've never run into a problem with any Windows operating system in terms of security, development, or extensive processing (video conversion and generation, gaming, etc.). Now, granted, most users have no idea how to fully utilize an operating system in the first place, and don't understand that clicking "yes, I would like to run your pop-up ad virus scanner that is magically detecting something on my system from your amazing web site" is probably not a good idea. Most people who complain about Vista have some simply astounding complaint like "I hate that thing that pops up every time I click on something asking me if I want to proceed" and then after you show them how to take 10 seconds to turn it off, manage to simplify their complaint even more by saying "I still hate Vista".

My bottom line: yes, there may be security risks in any Operating System, but I've never experienced them. If you've had to reformat your hard drive -ever- , don't blame it on the operating system. Trust me, it takes a serious malfunction / corruption for your OS to render itself entirely un-usable. The problem is people don't understand that registry errors and file system deletions or corruptions are caused by THEIR USE OF THE SOFTWARE, not by the software itself.

If you want software that will fulfill your basic needs and allow you to do what it is that about 85% of people nowadays need it to do, yes, shell out the dough and get a Mac. Can't afford a Mac, get a PC, but learn how to use it correctly and how -not- to screw it up.

I love Vista too but 7 is much better; much better than Vista OS X snow leopard

I haven't had the chance to try it out myself. I have heard the buzz, and if it comes out like a streamlined, thinned down version of XP or Vista, then it has my vote. But at the same time, I don't want to lose the usability I currently have. I doubt that's going to happen, but still, there's always the worry.

I agree with dereknc 100%. I too have been using Windows OS since 3.0 came out. I have never had to re-format my hard drive because of an error with the operating system, that I did not create myself.

Good article.

After testing Windows 7 for a couple of months I totally agree that this is the best Windows ever! The computer feels like it is brand new - boot is fast, interface is snappy, drivers just works and almost everything is backwards compatible. This is it!!

It's also probably the most easy to use Windows ever, but compared to OSX (can't really compare them though since Windows 7 is so much broader - with all software, games etc - it's really comparing an apple with an entire fruitbasket) I agree that OSX is more userfriendly and 'automatic' for the novice user.

"I agree that OSX is more userfriendly and 'automatic' for the novice user."

Which is great....until something breaks.

I haven't used mac to compare it to windows, but to hear people dog vista makes me think their idiots. I have been trying the evaluation copy of windows 7 for the past month and I won't be upgrading because I haven't seen a difference in performance - the only thing I've noticed is that vista looks better than 7 (that oversized task bar of 7 has to go). I think vista is better than 7 and xp and for everyone singing xp praises on one breath and bashing vista on another, you've either lost your damn minds or just haven't used vista enough to see how nice it is.

"makes me think their idiots"

Makes you think what about their idiots? ;)

He poetically, and quite frankly eloquently, stated it makes him think about their sexy blonde wives.

Many things make me think blonde wives too...

You can customize that taskbar and make it small too. As far as performance goes, 7 beats Vista and even XP sometimes.

If abovementioned is indeed true, I hereby make a formal request that a "PayPal Donate" button be assigned right next to Mr. Wilcox's name, for purposes of collecting sufficient funds for the purchase of a pallet-worth of various Pepto-Bismol products.

@maximuss I've used Macs since 1998, and recently switched from full-time MacBook Pro use to a smaller, lighter, more featured packed laptop running Windows 7. I'm not scared of change. I've switched between Mac OS and Windows every few months for years. What are you afraid of?

The problem with the mac stuff is that it doesn't change significantly enough for people to really care about it.

As for Windows7, I am generally pro MS but I have to say it doesn't take much to make 7 look good as vista was a turd and XP needs loads of tweeking to work at it's best.

I kinda like this kind of argument....it keeps us alive. The author is obviously a MS fanboy. I played with 7 at my office -beta, and loved it. It is such a improvement over Vista! My office is a MS shop, and I thus have no choice as to which OS to run on my laptop, but at home I use Linux. Why? you may ask....its free. So while the article is fairly one sided, it has merits. The issue that I will take with it is the argument about piracy --- I wonder how many users out there WILL run any Microsoft if they couldn't pirate it!

Over 95% of PC users in the USA get Windows pre-installed, so you must mean the overseas folks. Well those will do what I'd do if I had no cash -- I'd pirate Windows XP for the next 10 years since it's still leaps and bounds better than any other "easily piratable" OS... And if you couldn't pirate XP, and had no money at all, you'd obviously choose Linux. But this scenario isn't a secret between you & me, which is why Microsoft will FOREVER allow piracy of OLDER VERSIONS OF WINDOWS...

@ thinux The author is not a MS fanboy. I whack Microsoft aside the head plenty often enough. Actually, I need a new two-by-four. I busted the last one blogging about Steve Ballmer's unhappy Windows Phone launch: http://www.oddlytogether...phone-lie-to-me-edition/.

The netbooks run Win 7 just fine..... So, they won't be a problem for long.

@salimbag: you say "The mac operating system is the Taj Mahal of hacker challenges".
Mac OS X = Taj Mahal
Taj Mahal = grave/tomb
=> MAC OS X is going to lose it's market share and soon be forgotten. Beter yet is going to be MAC IS X. :)

And don't forget the Taj Mahal is an unfinished monument (there was supposed to be an all black copy on the opposite river bank!).

Well if you want to see the opposite of this article and lots of pro-Apple stuff, head right on over to Engadget.

@Floodland
Sorry, you need to mature some and buck up to the point that he is just stating fact.
MAC's are cool, OSX is nice but everyone out here in the REAL world can't afford to buy a MAC so yep, Windows is the dominant OS.

Until Apple wises up and starts dropping prices, their market share will still be at the bottom of the chain.

@prndll So, you just want to ignore the misreporting about the Broadpoint AmTech data that makes simply outrageous and unfounded claims that Mac sales increase when Microsoft launches new Windows versions? This post is labeled as "Viewpoint" because I used a snarky tone. But it's backed up by real data and analysis, which makes it very much "part of the big picture."

"everyone out here in the REAL world can't afford to buy a MAC "

Yeah...more generalized BS. This site just can't get enough of that crap, apparently.

FYI: Many people in the "real world" can afford more than your average McDonald's employee. Don't take that as an insult, be hopeful. Maybe someday you too will join the ranks of the gainfully employed.

@tmiller_hockey
Why is is that whenever someone calls out bad behavior, there is a flood of people coming back to tell them that they are wrong even pointing it out. This article was flamebait material, nothing more, and Floodland was right in pointing it out.

@Joewilcox
What kind of response did you expect from this article?

Ahh, cannot believe what I read tmiller_hockey. Did you even read the title of the note?
Do you call "Mac fanboys should get a life..." stating fact? THAT is inmature and biased, not me. Serious writers should be more responsible.

To make it even clearer, I am not defending Macs, I did not even mentioned Mac OS, but advertisements should not be called news.

"advertisements should not be called news"

...which might possibly explain why this was called a "viewpoint". :)

Sure, a heavily biased, entertaining viewpoint....but certainly not "news".

@p2x935
Again, you can't deal with fact.
This article is nothing but that plain and simple and there is nothing wrong with pointing that people are blind to the true workings of the big picture.

I am kinda concerned now...

This article was practically written *for* fathead and iTard7....

Where are those two scamps? Some-one call Steve-O and make sure they're OK, will ya?

They know better than to start. If they jump on then you know the comments will skyrocket to 200!

Wasn't that the point of the article, or am I missing something?

Read Scotty's article. Fatty lost AirBus connectivity right as interf@g7 lost all his personal files hehehehehehehe

Ahhhh.... Such serenity...

yup it's over 200! Isn't that record?

"yup it's over 200! Isn't that record?"

Oh c'mon... I'm sure I've seen you around during the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray articles. Most of those had quite a bit of girth, easily eclipsing this one.

You had me chuckling unti; you brought up the BSA stats.

You're seriously going to sit there basing one comapies numbers and then dive into support for the BSA's stats??? Where have you *been* the last 5 years? The BSA is not an organization reputable journalists use for anything but humor. Pretty much stopped reading at that point, though I am sure the comments will prove highly entertaining...

@PC_Tool I'm a BSA skeptic, too. The data on lost revenues is simply ridiculous. There is no way that every piece of pirated software would have been bought, which is the real assumption. But the piracy percentages are believable, which I why used them and not the other.

Holy sh*t. This keyboard sucks.

*until you brought up...

*bashing one companies numbers...

I love this laptop, but the keyboard drives me batty.

"Windows 7 is simply Microsoft's best operating system ever."

Let's be honest and not pretend that this is some sort of groundbreaking achievement. :)

I use Windows XP at work and OS X at home. I don't have a problem with either, but I have reasons for making my choices at home, like the fact that I have a good selection of software but also the power of Unix under the hood. For me, it's the best of both worlds. And as long as the company stays healthy (which they certainly have been doing lately), I don't think Apple cares whether or not they have a *huge* market share.

Best of both worlds definitely nails it. And Apple will continue to make money as long as they continue to make computers that are a step or two ahead of the competition in handling, innovation, and reliability. (I should go to bed, I sound like a freakin car commercial).

"I don't think Apple cares whether or not they have a *huge* market share."

IKn fact, I think Steve-O has stated that very fact many times. As long as they stay above 5%, he's happy. ...and why not? 5% of billions is not a bad gig. :)

And this just in, 8.8% per report at appleinsider.

Ah the enduring rivalry between Mac and Windows users (plus a few others). Judging by the posts, it's as if folks came to this site to see a fight and lo, a news commentary broke out at the top of the page.

Myself, I'm a Win XP user and am very excited at the good news I've heard about Windows 7. While I'm sure I would do alight with it, I'm actually in the market for a Mac now. Why? My reasons boil down to: 1) OS speed and reliabilty (though I hear Win7 has closed that gap), 2) Enjoyably useful software (the elegant iLife and iWork suites), and 3) The cool factor (iMercedes anyone?). Say what you will, Apples are REALLY NICE computers and there is a reason you hear people say "Once you have a Mac you never go back."

Now, I'm VERY much aware of how much Macs cost (about $1000 more than PC that will do pretty much the same thing you want to do on the Mac). So, realize that I am under no illusions here: a Mac is a LUXURY. Though some fanboys may cry heresy, let us acknowledge that you may do most anything you NEED to on a PC for far less, much in the same way that you can drive from Chicago to Toledo in a Ford vs a Mercedes. But guess which driving experience you likely to enjoy more? The only question you have to ask is what is first class worth to you?

Is it worth it to me? I'm still deciding. Like many customers, I still need to properly eval Win7 and there may be new iMacs soon.

But I must say I am leary of even an improved Windows OS. I've had to reformat my 4 1/2 year old eMachine T6212 3 times in the last few years just to keep it useable for the basics (IE surfing, iTunes, MS Office, movie conversion software). Yes, I could get a decent new PC for another $600, but given Windows' track record on system stability, I'm edging toward Mac for its promise of longevity. I'd like my computer to last more than 2 years before I have to start overhauling its OS. From what I hear, MACs generally very well in that department (recent headlines notwithstanding ... have a little faith that they will work out the Snow Leopard bugs). Windows 7 might deliver, but it hasn't proven itself yet.

About iLife and iWorks, they are just plain awesome and very flashy. I use MS Office 2007 now, and it is a fine workhorse, but iWorks take it to a new level (though it does have room for improvement ... where the heck is the auto save Steve?!). iLife 09 looks great for movie and photo editing. I'm eager to compare it to what comes with Win7. But again, I don't hold to the illusion that there nothing out there that won't meet my photo editing needs.

Basically, Win7 will get its chance. I'm eager to see how it measures up to Snow Leopard. Enjoy the slugfest that this article has spawned.

"Judging by the posts, it's as if folks came to this site to see a fight and lo, a news commentary broke out at the top of the page."

It's like going to the fights in that regard. Every once in a while, a hockey game breaks out. ;)

In regards to an iLife comparable in Win7...no such luck. They removed the "lifestyle" stuff and threw it up (threw up?) on Windows Live. Still, for what many folks need, I suppose it would work.

Shame. One of the initial attractors to Apple, at least for me, was its iLife package. Windows might do well to develop and offer something similar. My opinion.

" 4 1/2 year old eMachine T6212 " - Hello, you're machine is not only 2 technology cycles OUTDATED, it was just plain crap when you bought it.

What people like you forget, is that the greatest advantage Mac has is that it makes BOTH the hardware AND software. Microsoft just makes the software and a million people (including DIYers @ home) build the hardware.

Try porting the itune software from your ipod to a zune or sandisk mp3 player and let me know how that works out.

Try an HP or a dell next time for a normal "experience". Want the "mercedes" feel? Alienware, falcon northwest, etc.

Next time, DON'T BE CHEAP. Buy a REAL PC to go with your windows.

I'm sick of people who pay $800 or less for their hardware and slap the new Windows on it only to complain about it.
OF COURSE IT SUCKS. You basically giftwrapped horse manure...

You get what you pay for.
Yes, Macs are nice. Wish I had one. Yes, PCs from the right manufactuerer with windows are nice too (and it most cases cost less then the mac equivelant while having access to more applications).

Bottom line, applications are moving to the web (meaning the OS will play a smaller role) and again, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

"'m sick of people who pay $800 or less for their hardware and slap the new Windows on it only to complain about it.
OF COURSE IT SUCKS."

None of my last 3 PC's cost me more than $600.

All of them are still working just fine.

All of them are running Windows 7 RTM (TechNet).

Me? I'm sick of people who think money automatically buys quality. An idiot is still an idiot, regardless of how much they spend. A tech\enthusiast who knows what he/she is doing will always be able to spend far less and get much more.

Possibly the most valuable post here, thanks for taking the time to write it. "You get what you pay for. Yes, Macs are nice. Wish I had one. Yes, PCs from the right manufactuerer with windows are nice too (and it most cases cost less then the mac equivelant while having access to more applications)."

At the time I bought the eMachine, I thought it was middle of the road on price and specs. Found out diffently the hard way. But one question I have is how has Windows XP and Vista held up on the high end models? How often did those machines have to be reformatted to keep them running smoothly? Thanks again Xel3.

Listening. What would you recommend.

@ecualegacy The closest thing I've seen to iLife for Windows -- and it still needs some spit and polish -- is Corel's new Digital Studio 2010.

I have used Ulead in the past, but don't know what they offer/how they compare nowadays.

"One of the initial attractors to Apple, at least for me, was its iLife package. Windows might do well to develop and offer something similar."

Yeah, that would be "doing well" if they wanted more lawsuits about being anti-competitive; or did you forget they got in trouble for including a media player (and nearly in trouble for including a browser) in their OS?

Interesting. I hadn't thought about that. So I guess Apple can get away with making integrated apps for its own hardware because of its smaller market share? Or am I missing something?

Nope. Not missing a thing. Microsoft cannot do it because of it's current status as the Market share leader.

Anything they bundle with Windows becomes, by extension, the market share leader for whatever market that bundled app "competes" in.

WinAMP, for example, was "The Media Player" before WMP. WMP hit, and suddenly, in terms of market share WinAMP was nothing.

Note: their actual downloads/users didn't take much of a hit...which is why some argue basing these bundling restrictions purely on market share is somewhat misguided.

So, you admit that Microsoft's questionable bundling of second-rate apps in their OS has given those apps a near-monopoly, yet you also say this hasn't significantly impacted the user base for the competing applications. Sorry, you can't have it both ways, at least not any more. A few years ago you might have tried playing the "expanding global userbase" card, but nowadays the number of new PC users is essentially flat outside of the developing world (which uses almost no Microsoft products, at least legally).

Company A has no product in the market.

Company B has a product and ~5 million users.

Company A bundles a competing product with a product of theirs in another market, in which they hold an 89% market share.

Company B's product still has ~5 million users and is still growing.

Nothing to do with expanding global user-base and everything to do with people disliking change and using what they are familiar with.

It's quite unprofessional that you talk that way about Mac.
Sure, i agree with your point but even if i do, i don't like the b*tching in the article.

My little advice: rant out loud to yourself or with a friend and after you've taken it out of your chest, sit down to write. It will be a nicer read.

@thartist It's labeled as "Viewpoint," which means commentary, even though there is backing data and analysis. I'm a long-time Mac user, too, by the way.

@joewilcox, maybe there needs to be a big disclaimer written at the top of the article. Something to the effect of "Flamewar bait here. Pick up fire retardant at counter." Some folks just need to get a sense of humor I suppose. For what it is worth, I got something useful out of the article. And everyone should be able to see your point that chart doesn't predict Mac sales will increased based on a Windows release.

I have access to almost every Microsoft software except office via MSDN AA for free :)
Though it's def. worth paying! Just gotta say 7 will rule!!

Technet rocks. :)

Windows 7 will kill endangered os snow leopard and eat it alive

"Jeepers, how scary." ~Rukia, Bleach ep1.

This was a very good article... I'm so tired of those clueless Mac fanboys spouting nonesense. OSX is and always will be the most less used OS in the world... Ubuntu will (if it hasn't already) pass it up in the # of users. Mac fanboys have no idea what they are talking about, the new Snow Leopard has been a failure, it deletes user data, takes forever to upgrade, has compatibility issues, and still has that ugly damn interface. Windows 7 is the OS the restof the 'real' world will be using. Deal with it creepy Mac fanboys... you guys lost the war :)

And yet somehow I think there will still be a market for bumper stickers that say "My other computer is a Mac." Have a little faith that Snow Kitty will be grow up to be a big strong Leopard someday soon. Just give it some time (and whole milk). Same goes for Win7. You know there will be bumps, but it will have its chance. Personally, I suspect it will eventually gain the same popularity as Win XP.

BTW, I like the dock, but you don't have to if you don't want to. As for the rest of the real world, that actually includes most mac users. What was the stat? Something like 80% or 90% of Mac owners use a copy of Windows too?

Meow night.

'most less used'... You could have said least.

"...still has that ugly damn interface."

Which must be why Vista and 7 have tried to copy it, eh? ;-)

That aside, you're clearly unfamiliar with what you're talking about. There's no "still has" about it--it changed significantly in 10.5, so it's hardly a look that's been around for a while (and 10.4 was actually a noticeable change, as well, as was either 10.2 or 10.3--I can't remember).

"Which must be why Vista and 7 have tried to copy it, eh?"

How so?

No, really. I love hearing the uninformed and clueless comparisons of the Windows 7 taskbar and the Mac Dock....

@Gavel This post presents data to support its position, but is identified as "Viewpoint," which means commentary. The erroneous reporting is the Broadpoint AmTech material, which this post more accurately interprets.

the bias on this site is ridiculous and out of control.

why don't you people get with the times and analyze all angles in a concise manner instead of writing unnecessarily verbose "commentary"?

Funny. When I find a website I feel is "one-sided", etc...I stop visiting it. I've never felt compelled to post anything telling them how awful/wrong/etc their site is. If they can't figure it out themselves, my $0.02 won't make a difference. Why waste your time? You aren't going to change anyone's mind. Visiting the site is EXACTLY what they want. If you think this site has gone in the wrong direction, go make your own pillar of perfection. Everyone will flock there since this place is so bad and would be vastly more effective then some lame comment in some article that I'm sure everyone that visits this site will read.

What will actually make a difference for a website like this is declining pageviews.

So, if you find this (or any website) bad, don't visit it. If enough think the same way, it will change or go away. Or, start your own. Don't act like this is the only technology newsite on the internet.

PleX, are you actually suggesting people on this site succumb to the plague of Common Sense?

Where has that ever gotten anyone?

Sheesh....

You kids and your newfangled, anti-establishment ideas...

WinXP users aren't going to Win7 until they have significant hardware upgrades, so just as with Vista, people who get new machines will be the majority of Win7 users.

Luckily for Microsoft, most companies are in need of new hardware by now, having waited for Vista to become stable and will go to Win7 once SP1 is available, but as history shows us, no one in the corporate world is foolish enough to use any Windows prior to that first service pack.

Definitely agree (seeing as how I'm in the same situation). I swore never to own a copy of Vista once I saw how gosh awful it was. It took them quite a while just to improve it to merely annoying. Really looking forward to my first test drive of a Win7.

Win7 works fine on Single-Core systems with 1GB of RAM. :) no expensivve hardware upgrades needed. oogle HP ze2113us. Old laptop from HP. 6+ years old. Works great with Win7...even Aero is enabled.

I've been wondering about how well it might perform on my old clunker of an eMachine. Thanks for the tip.

Dunno about other specific builds. I was shocked as hell when it even *installed* on that thing...speechless when it enabled Aero after running the WEI. Totally floored.

FWIW: The GPU in that thing is a Radeon Mobility 200 or some such. Old tech. As far as I know...it really shouldn't support it.

I haven't even entertained the thought of trying to get vista to install on that thing (though I suppose it could offer some amusement, and I do have that Vista Ultimate I won here....)

Installing Vista on such an old thing? Sounds like the equivalent of extreme sports for computing. Seriously, though, you have me tempted to see how a trial version of Win7 would work on my PC. Still, I must say I did have my heart set on getting an iMac. Hmm. Choices choices. Thanks again for the tip.

"Sounds like the equivalent of extreme sports for computing. "

No, that's putting Linux on an Xbox. This would be cake compared to that.

Personally? I doubt the installation would even complete. Might be an entertaining test to do on Saturday though.

A few dozen MB of dbase file (registry) is what bothers you in 2009 with quad-cores that can handle hundreds of gigaflops? You think locating the same piece of info on a filesystem parsing some text file is MUCH more efficient? hehehehehe

Of course with 4GB of RAM, the entire registry can be in memory and probably a significant amount of it is, automatically loaded to memory, with Win7...

He doesn't know what the registry is. He heard the word somewhere and how godawful terrible it is, and he thinks if he repeats it people will think he's smart.

Ok, this is actually funny...

1) Apple has been working on a 'REGISTRY' for OS X, because of the problems with scattered configuration files in the UNIX portion of the OS. You see the GUI and GUI end of applications in OS X already use and report to a 'REGISTRY', and Apple is trying to create a full REGISTRY to replace the configuration file aspects of the entire OS. (Look it up.)

2) A Registry is NOT a bad thing. The registry is just a central database for settings, instead of having 100s of configuration files scattered around the computer.

So, A) Your Mac talking points are outdated, as Apple is moving more to a registry, and B) You are just using Mac talking points and don't have a real complaint or a clue.

"Have you ever (and I mean ever) heard of anybody complaining about their Macs?"

Yes. Daily. Browse the Mac forums, genius.

Personally? I can walk into our design department any day of the week to talk to our graphics designers, or look at the IT logs. Yeah, Macs have problems....and their users complain. Moreso, actually, since most of them got Macs because the PC was just too komplekated....

LOL, I'll remember that one! We have an iMac 20" (the kind I have my eye on) at my workplace which just up'd and died last week and won't take a reinstall of iLife. Yes, iMacs can and do break too, but not as often as PCs. I do live in hope that Win7 will help that stat though.

Windows 7 is the only software I've purchased in years, while I have other very expensive software "casually" installed -- cuz I KNOW THE FUTURE. So no, I don't think piracy is going to be an issue for Microsoft. Windows 7 will be the least pirated Windows ever -- it's too difficult to crack and then it's impossible to know if you cracked it successfully. You'll get a false positive feeling that all went well, only to get detected as a non-genuine version a few short weeks later -- this I gather from many posts I've read by the kiddies trying to re-re-recrack the damn thing in past months. Microsoft certainly has grown some brain in that arena...(by tricking the would-be-thieves).

I paid $50 for Win7, but would pay upto $80. If it was more, I'd stick to Vista/XP with some yummy *hrrm*pirated*hrrmhmmhmm* third-party addon software.

Anyway..it'll take about a year for pirates in those dark parts of the world to internalize the new reality: you CANNOT pirate Windows any more for your "customers", since you WILL need to spend at least 20 hours a year re-cracking and re-cracking and re-cracking it or leave the PC non-updating which will get them pwned faster than it takes a drunk blonde to take off her..nevermind..this is a family site..or so I was told hehehehehe

All of that information is completely wrong. Windows 7 was "cracked" before the RTM was leaked. Look up slic table/oem activation and slic bios emulation. It's been around the entire lifetime of Vista and has yet to be patched how ever many years later. It makes windows think it's genuine and theres really not much MS can do about it.

yup... i did the oem activation for windows xp,it said your copy has been activated.towards the end of the month it again started giving warning messages and by the 30th day, windows wouldnt start..

snaphat is right. Vista had this kind of "crack" Microsoft couldn't do a thing since released and they applied the same strategy for Windows 7 AFAIK. Not that MS can't do something but I think it might break a lot of legal installations in the process and that would be a total marketing wreck.

About a price it would be tempting to upgrade if around 50 bucks (IIRC it was sold at that price in USA presales) but we have to pay over 200 here (South America) so you get the picture why it's pirated. We pay a Notebook twice the price in USA, we pay desktops between 30% and 50% more. But we earn 2 to 4 times less than there so you still wonder why piracy is greater here than in USA?

In any case I have other numbers for media piracy that is greater in USA and EU. You wonder why is that (I don't, it's because they have better Internet links).

"it's too difficult to crack and then it's impossible to know if you cracked it successfully"

emm... you think? ;)

Wow, E.W. Just ...wow.

RTM was cracked before it even hit Technet, you dork.

Sheesh.

BTW: The new crack? BIOS SLP. Nearly the exactly same that so successfully used for XP and Vista. Takes mere moments. Will never need to be updated (as that would require MSFT de-activating an entire OEM).

all this talk about cracking and recracking....perhaps *you* should lay off the crack?

I don't argue with idiots, hence I'll let you learn on your own the truth about to be unleashed upon ya'll. I will simply repeat what I've said, slightly revised:

It'll take about a year for pirates ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD to internalize the new reality: you CANNOT casually pirate Windows any more, since you WILL need to spend at least 20 hours a year re-cracking and re-cracking and re-cracking it.

You guys with the "sleek" cracking solutions are going to get quite a nice surprise any time now... ;)

But lemme demonstate to you why you are so f'king dumb anyway (cuz I have 2 more mins to dedicate to your upper education):
Faking your BIOS is NOT gonna help you since you CANNOT fake your HARDWARE HASH. Your new version of, say, Windows Live Messenger, could include a nice fresh Hardware hash gatherer+reporter to mothership, which will, SURPRISE! YOU'RE A RETARD!, also report your supposed OEM license. Now, let's think for a moment here...

"Gee... our logs here show that there are 90% of people using the SAME HARDWARE HASH with this OEM license... Could it be..that..they..are..LEGITIMATE USERS?? Noooo..that was too hard to figure out... Now let's look at the other 10% -- damn, their hardware hash is all over the place. Not even 1% have the same exact hardware combo. I wonder if they could possibly be ... PIRATES???"

And don't tell me there are gonna be exceptions such that an OEM user who upgraded his video drive. That user is already on MS dbase for months with his original hardware hash so they KNOW he once had an "untouched" virgin OEM machine. And if he upgraded immediately, well, he's just gonna have to give Microsoft a buzz... 1 such case in a million... no big "PR" drama as some FALSLY claim.

Anyway, most of you are simply not smart enough to recognize that pirating Windows & Office is: GAME OVER.

Moron: Microsoft is smarter than you, as is apparently everyone else around here.

Do you have any idea how OEM SLP activation works? Obviously not, since you babbling about hardware hashes and authentication. Google it. It would help if your "education" had some actual knowledge behind it.

FYI: Microsoft likes their pirates. They will never make it impossible to pirate Windows. :)

"extremely well" - Your bigotry against persons with developmental disabilities is showing. Visit r-word.org.

I don't have any bigotry against people with lesser intelligence than me, in fact, I quite happily love the fact that very few are as smart as me (or smarter) or else I'd have to work much harder to compete in every facet of life.

PCa_sTool: you're plain and simple idiot. Not a relatively-higher IQ retard, not an imbecile. You are the classic idiot. I already said I won't argue with your kind. I'll simply point out, as an act of kindness, that the concept I was "babbling about", namely hardware hashes, is what will make your TEMPORARILY "authorized" pirated Win7 machine reverse its pre-"authorization", which we all know, was done in the factory. Again, you person with profound developmental disabilities which I will not call RETARD: you cannot fake a hardware hash and 99% of LEGIT OEM installers will have the SAME ph***ING HASH.

Microsoft stopped liking piracy since Windows Vista. They could have made life hell already with WinXP but chose to start pissing pirates off only in the Vista days. Get an update on that falsehood stuck in your head from the days long gone... YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PIRATE WINDOWS 7 WITHOUT AT LEAST 20 HOURS YEARLY EFFORT SPREAD AROUND IN VERY ANNOYING LITTLE INTERVALS WHICH WILL EFFECTIVELY KILL PIRACY FOR THAT OPERATING SYSTEM. WINDOWS XP WILL BE THE FREE ALTERNATIVE WHERE MICROSOFT WILL CONTINUE TO TURN A BLIND EYE ON TO MAINTAIN DOMINANCE WITHOUT SACRIFICING REVENUE. THEY KNOW THAT IF XP WAS NOT FREE TOO, PIRATES OF THE WORLD WOULD PIRATE MACOS OR JUMP SHIP TO LINUX.

Nobody will ever crack Windows & Office???? You're a bigger idiot that I gave you credit for!

*laughing*

You see, folks. He keeps going with the hardware hashes bit. Anyone care to tell him why this won't work? Personally, I am more than happy to let him continue this hilarious fantasy of his.

I am right and ALL of you RETARDS are wrong. Period.

Time will put all of you to shame and crown me as the one true tech prophet. BTW, I already by any measure of intelligence am soooo much more intelligent than you all... More than 99.9% of the population to be exact. So I'll give you a hint: higher intelligence means MAINLY that you are extremely perceptive to EVERYTHING, with clear benefit of PREDICTING THE FUTURE TO AN EXTREME HIGH DEGREE OF ACCURACY, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME. (I must admit I *am* wrong about 1 in 20 predictions).

Now, just to correct one point some RETARD mentioned:
NO, I DID NOT SAY WINDOWS & OFFICE WON'T BE CRACKED. I SAID THEY WILL NOT BE *PERMANENTLY* CRACKED AND SO *NO* *BUSINESS* *WILL* *DEAL* *WITH* *PIRATED* *OFFICE* *OR* *WINDOWS* *IN* *THE* *VERY* *NEXT* *VERSIONS* *OF* *THESE* *PRODUCTS*.

Well, John. Windows does have some heavy competition and that competition is Microsoft. You see, the problem isn't so much Mac sales ripping away at Windows. Rather it's Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot with antiquated products that just don't work anymore. I should let you know that I switched to Mac over a month ago. You see, Windows 7 is great, I used the RC and was reasonably happy, but the real issue is compatibility. I got sick of my programs being rendered useless every time MS decides to upgrade. So I went with a company who clearly has an upgrade path. I wanted 64-bits for my software but Windows 64 is not compatible with my software. Windows 7 is not compatible with any of my M-Audio equipment. Mac, however, is compatible. So, again, Windows is facing competition from themselves. Sometimes being the big dog means that you scare people off. They made me run.

Its not MS fault that M-audio is dragging their hands on updating drivers - they should work fine in compatibility mode but may have some issues with windows functions but during recording should be fine. For example my M-audio delta 66 the vista drivers prevent windows from going to sleep or hibernating or even rebooting the machine, so its a bit of annoyance but can be remedied by turning the audio service off which takes all of 5 seconds or writing a script to run at startup and shutdown (for non tech people disabling the sound service is a lot easier) Mac is compatible because their OS is officially released, Win 7 hasn't yet been

I have been running W7 Pro Corp 64 bit for about two weeks now. I have had NO problems with drivers, or any of the software that I use. I have no idea what you are talking about. Stop using really old programs, and you might be happy in life, without having to go to a very limited OS.

*facepalm* Macs are just as vulnerable to viruses as Windows. Nobody WRITES VIRUSES for Macs for the same reason that few companies write software in general for it: the pitiful marketshare. So every time you brag about lack of attention from virus writers, you're pointing out a fundamental weakness of your platform.

I'll happily deal with the potential for viruses -- which amounts to running a anti-virus software, something Apple recommend for Mac users, too -- to have access to the widest array of software.

Of course, the typical response from a Mac zealout is that they Windows, too. *lol*

Mac user: "My daddy's stronger than your daddy!"
Windows user: "Huh? My dad can lifte way more than yours."
Mac user: "Nut uh... my dad can lift more, if your daddy helps."

*rofl*

It's like if I say my dad can lift more than your dad, so you response that your dad can life more... as long as my dad helps. *rofl*

lmao! I was going to say the same thing... why is it that every mac user seems to think that Macs do not get viruses or are not succeptible to them?

Actually, market share does have a lot to do with viruses. Being both a windows and unix developer and knowing (quite well) the underpinnings of both platforms, ANY OS CAN BE INFECTED. Just because root access is required does not mean that the OS is not vulnerable. Case in point, every year someone hacks a Mac as easily as a Linux machine as easily as a Windows machine. (http://www.fastcompany.c...macs-not-safe-you-think)

Seriously, I don't care what OS you use. Before you make the simple blanket statements like "it doesn't get virues" or "I can't be hacked", do some research...

I really hope all that was sarcasm....

"only protects things at an account level"

That's not true. UAC is used is to elevate from the quasi-administrator that is the default to actual admin, which is analogous (close enough) to root in Unix.

For the record, I really wish the Windows default user was not even quasi-admin. I do think that's a failing of the Windows system, though a social engineering one, not a technical one.

The fact is that Macs have been hacked (look up pwnToOwn), and Apple has plenty of serious security patches that they release on a regular basis, many of which could be used as a basis for a successful hack. It IS possible to hack a Mac, and it HAS been done. You cannot pretend otherwise.

It's also true that there are relatively few known attacks on Macs in the wild. So why not? It's not technical, therefore it must be social. As for details, I don't think anyone really knows, but the marketshare argument is logical. Another is that Windows is very widely pirated, as mentioned in the article.

except mac doesnt do everything =/

lol, actually macs do get viruses, little fyi :)

Are you serious? More market share = more viruses. Its plain and simple.

Not defending Macs but... they think so because "whatever the reason and the background are" your chance of getting malware is a hundredth than in Windows, so that's enough fact to believe in!

Gotta love the MacTards using the "hardware compatibility" angle. You almost have to wonder what drugs they're on. Hardware Compatible? Macs?

Let us all know how well that new SL install works on your iBook. What? Not compatible? How about that G5 Dual-Core? No? Still not compatible? How about the Dell I just bought? No???

WTH???

PC_Tool - Don't forget you can get SL to install on that Dell... well maybe... after you hack the s*** outta the disc! then there goes your stability. But hey it's "hardware compatible"... sort of ;)

It won't work. The Dell is an AMD. ...and all the hacking in the world won't get the wireless chip working. ;)

@TujuMaster: Answering this would be like trying to explain to a 3 year old how life was formed, why they just keep asking why to every answer. Much like the child, you have no understanding, of anything, to even ask that question.

Viruses have everything to do with market share... If someone is going to take the time to create a virus or malware etc... they are going to want it to affect as many machines as possible, therefore its not efficient to create anything for Macs being as they only represent a small portion of machines...

And if you still think that Macs aren’t susceptible to anything then you should probably come out from under your rock...

i actually got OSX 10.5 "running" on my AMD laptop (yes just for kicks) and the wireless worked fine. Everything else, not so well.... OSX 10.6 though i haven't tried, supposedly it does work. but not worth my time

@EricTetz There are plenty of Mac developers and applications, with Microsoft the largest Mac developer of the lot. Mac or PC isn't the issue. Apple's App Store/iPhone/iPod touch platform is the black hole sucking in developers. Apple's iPhone tablet surely will support App Store. Microsoft would be wise to create a single app store for Windows, mobile devices and Xbox.

Well a little about me... I'm a solid PC user, Windows and Linux since the DOS days. I've never owned a MAC but my wife is a solid MAC user. I am employed as a Network Technician.

The bottom line is OS X and Windows and Linux fill different market niches. Just because Window's market is in the majority doesn't really say much to it being better than it's so called competition. Anyone who compares a MAC to a PC is comparing apples to oranges. I get really tired reading articles that attack one or the other and seeing people talk s about each other for having a preference. If your a Windows user you should sit down and use a MAC sometime then come back and share an educated opinion. If your a MAC user you should definitely sit down to a PC sometime and come back with an educated opinion. If your a Linux user, well nevermind if you know how to use Linux you don't need this lecture and your probably not on these boards talking s. Get real people computers go way beyond the petty little marketing wars developed by large corporations out for your disposable income.

FYI, There is no such thing as a "MAC" user...

Whatcha'talkin'bout? I use my MAC right now, and so do you. How the *beep* would my router know which packets to pick up if I weren't using my own very nicely unique 16-hexadigit MAC????

If you're a network technician, you frequently use a MAC--Media Access Control. The computer is Mac or Macintosh. ;-)

Maybe I should have stated "in the context the user above uses *MAC*"

If your really tired of reading these articles...then what made you read this one! Go and read something else then

Broke my "emoticon" ;-) besides... aren't the OS wars dead yet? You use what fits the need. I myself use MANY operating systems. I love the chart though... very cool.

Windows XP is more than a mere service pack?! Any business will tell you different. Because of XP's increased security company IT's were actually able to lock down users. Which was a serious plus! You can only take so many users installing iTunes or some "personal" application. Windows 2K was a great starting point in regards to stability and usability (and i used it for years on my old P2 and P3 laptops) but XP turned out to be a solid OS (Post SP1) all around. It will be interesting if 7 will make users forget about XP like XP did with 98!

Where to even start with this one....

First a little about me. I'm a Mac User. I have a MacBook Pro from March of 2008. I love my Mac.

I installed Windows 7 last week (MSDN) and I think might love my Mac even more now. Windows just feels faster and has enough new window management features to make it competitive there. If you're a Mac fan and you're thinking something like "No, no, you must not be using Snow Leopard..." or something similar, stop. I am using Snow Leopard. I did a fresh install.

Now I'm not saying OS X is slow but it doesn't feel snappy (hah!) after I boot into Windows 7. Snow Leopard is an improvement though, and before Leopard I used Vista on a lesser machine which certainly made me feel like my new MBP and OS X were BLAZING fast.

Anyway, Windows 7 is amazing. The apps using the system tray need some consistency on right vs. left click but that's up to the developers. That, really, might be my only complaint...oh, and the lack of 1Password...certainly not Microsoft's fault.

Having said that, I don't see the point of the arguing in either direction. I know the logical fallacies obviously bother you but I sincerely doubt you're going to convince any of the close-minded Mac fans that you're right. Just as I'll never convince most of my friends that its worth it to own a Mac and I'm okay with that.

To change the topic I can't believe you've been around for ten years. Earlier on (way early on) you guys got me into some awesome betas (well, you didn't, but you provided the info to sign up).

Congrats and thanks!

What's your real point?

Trying to say Windows is better, Macs aren't or something?

BetaNews is more and more becoming
gossip and slammer kind rather than informative stuff.

For the recode I use both everyday without being bias, everything has a face and an ass, which you
gonna show off first doesn't make you any better in technical perspectives...

It's just a notion, not everything is better, not everything is evil if you have some sense.

Ok, this i didn't read through the other comments, but you guys do know that windows run on macs right? You could buy Win7 and install it on the mac run it until it ether sucks, or doesn't suck.

I joined here just to write how this article fails.

FAIL!

The article fails, indeed.

But the comments? Pure comic genius!

Lol, Companies use Windows, Schools uses Windows, most homes have a PC. Who cares about a Apple Mac computer..

MS does