Microsoft's 'Have it Your Way' confronts Apple's 'Have it Our Way'
By Joe Wilcox | Published October 22, 2009, 1:35 PM
Burger King has long used marketing slogan "Have it Your Way." I saw something different during my first trip to New York City 30 years ago inside the Times Square Burger King. There was an express line with sign: "Have it Our Way." Which line was longer? The one where people could choose how their burgers were fixed.
Today, Microsoft officially launched Windows 7 in New York, emphasizing choice and customer participation. Choice is a longstanding Microsoft marketing and product principle. Participation is a longstanding approach to Microsoft product development. With Windows 7, Microsoft is bringing the two together for the product marketing. Have it your way. "Excuse me, sir. Is that Windows 7 for here or to go?"
The approach is simply brilliant and it is timely with social networking trends. Microsoft is positioning Windows 7 as your operating system, which you can fix any way want. The first TV commercial asserts that Windows 7 was crowdsourced, with people asking for what they wanted and getting it. Catch phrase: "I'm a PC, and Windows 7 was my idea."
Microsoft's strategy starkly contrasts with Apple, which is much less about choice than customers being chosen for. For example:
- Apple product development is secretive, rather than encouraging customer feedback and participation.
- Product choice is limited to the few computers that Apple releases, such as the same aluminum construction and design for iMac or MacBook Pro.
- Mac OS X is deliberately designed to discourage customization. There is one look for all Mac desktops.
- Apple sells only one computer -- the entry-level Mac mini -- for less than $999. Buyers must choose to spend $999 or more.
Apple's product and marketing approach is very much "Have it Our Way." Microsoft wants you to "Have it Your Way":
- You help Microsoft improve Windows to meet your needs.
- You choose the PC that looks and functions your way.
- You customize the desktop any old way you want it.
- You choose how much you want to spend on a computer.
Microsoft long has advocated this kind of choice and participation. The difference now: Microsoft is using these attributes to really sell Windows, in ways the company hasn't done for years and in other ways like it never has. Perhaps it's no coincidence that Burger King and Microsoft share the same advertising agency: Crispin, Porter + Bogusky. Some examples of Microsoft's Windows 7 participation marketing:
- The aforementioned TV commercials asserting that "Windows 7 was my idea."
- Windows 7 House Party, where real people celebrate the launch and share pics and videos online.
- Social Website that collects "What people are really saying about Windows 7" from blogs, feeds and social networks, such a Facebook, Flickr, Twitter and YouTube.
- Microsoft home page, which today rotates Windows 7 reviews and comments from real people -- mostly via Twitter -- rather than from bloggers or journalists.
The most successful products sell a lifestyle -- they provide a community where people feel they belong. Apple already had a fervent Mac community before the opening of the first Apple retail store in May 2001. Since, and with products like iPhone, iPod and iTunes, Apple has successfully extended the Mac community to the mass market.
Microsoft started rebuilding Windows community and belonging with the "I'm a PC" marketing campaign, which debuted in late 2008. Microsoft essentially told customers that they didn't have to feel bad before the cool Mac kids. PC users are just as cool but in different ways, and there are more of them, too. Microsoft also touted a value lifestyle.
The Windows 7 marketing campaign goes much further, by asserting that everyday people contributed to Windows 7's development -- that Microsoft listened to their input, that their opinions mattered. Who does Apple listen to other than CEO Steve Jobs?
Everything about Windows 7 marketing is anti-Apple and anti-Mac -- all unstated. Microsoft doesn't need to attack Apple directly, nor should it. The better marketing approach is to attract customers rather than to drive them away from something else. Besides, the bigger market of users run Windows, not Macs. Microsoft is competing against itself. It's Windows 7 against Windows XP (and some Vista).
That's where the other part of the marketing messaging is so important. The tagline: "Your PC, simplified." Simple is usually better. Among my six principles of good product design, two are more important: Good products should emphasize simplicity and they should hide complexity. Windows 7 unquestionably fulfills both in comparison to Windows Vista or XP.
In the first Windows 7 TV commercial above, the featured users first ask for a "Whole lotta less" and later for "simpler." The simpler message continues in the two other videos. Microsoft can't countermarket -- or shouldn't -- Windows XP . The marketing does better by enticing people to a better, simpler Windows 7.
Good marketing is about selling aspiration, about showing people how their lives will be better for buying products X, Y or Z. Microsoft's choice and participation marketing is excellent; joining a community or participating in a lifestyle are aspirational qualities. Better still: Asking for what you want and getting it. Have it your way, baby.

Apples best days as a computer maker may have already past. Windows 7 with the constant flow of new exciting PC hardware is way more sexy than Apples once a year update to its aluminium bricks. I'd never buy a Mac now that Windows 7 is out.
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|What exciting new hardware?
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|Windows 7 doesn't exactly compete well with XP given that they don't recommend the upgrade...
and my old desktop is a bit too old to run Aero unless I upgrade my gfx
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|"my old desktop is a bit too old to run Aero unless I upgrade my gfx"
Then don't.
It really is that easy. Is Win7 better? IMO, yes. Doesn't mean squat if it doesn't work on your hardware though, does it? ;)
Stick with XP...when it comes time to upgrade your hardware for whatever reason...reconsider. If it's still not worth it, so be it. I don't know why people are feeling forced. It's not happening. No-one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Heck, I just decommissioned a Win98 machine 3 weeks ago. Never saw the MS-Mafia trying to persuade us to upgrade. Not once.
That said,
"Windows 7 doesn't exactly compete well with XP given that they don't recommend the upgrade..."
Well, not for an upgrade. A clean install is always better and if the PC in question can actually run it, you might be surprised. My 5 year old laptop runs 7 better than XP (though I would never have even considered an 'upgrade" route...had there been one).
...and of course no-one sane is going to recommend XP over Win7 on a new system. That'd be silly... ;)
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|"and my old desktop is a bit too old to run Aero unless I upgrade my gfx"
So if you upgrade to Win7, it will render the screen just like XP does for you currently, yet you get the other 5000+ new features.
If you choose to upgrade your video, you get the Aero/Glass.
This is not a reason to avoid Win7.
You might not 'need' or have the $$ for Win7, but your video working exactly as it does now is not an issue.
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|Bottom line:
XP was all about getting to whatever part of the OS you wanted via many different paths.
The Vista UI was the typical Mac drone mindset of "do it my way or the highway - I am The One True Path To The Shining Light".
We all know how THAT went.
It looks like MS learned its lesson.
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|The comments section on this site is hosed.
Example: The bottom line is on the top.
*grin*
OK. That was horrible. My very deepest and most sincere apologies to, well, no-one.
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|"The bottom line is on the top."
Hmm... pretty clever for that early in the morning. ;)
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|One word:
Beer.
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|He writes an article in favor of Apple or an Apple product, he's instantly accused of being on Apple's payroll.
He writes an article in favor on MS or a MS product, he's instantly accused of being on MS payroll.
It's just flipping amazing to me. And the cycle repeats itself too! Like some users on here feel like he's switching teams every few Apple/MS articles.
I'm all for MS, Windows and PC but guess what? I can easily appreciate that the Macbook Pro is nice. I can say that OSX is a pleasure to use. I can say that the Iphone is a nice phone and that the Ipod touch is a fun device to use. Hell, I can even say that between 2 similarly specced and priced Apple vs. Non-Apple laptops, I'd DEF. pick the Apple one because of Bootcamp.
Why then is it that we can't leave the "so and so writer is advertising for..." out of these comments, and just talk about the content of the article?
Regarding the article. Some of Joe's articles anger me to no end....but in this case, I agree with what he says here. It's pretty much notorious for Apple to serve their computers their way. You can change some parts (very few....cpu, ram and video card if you're lucky), but that's about it.
You're getting a Mac Mini if you want a computer only, or you're spending money for an IMac if you want more. What about someone who wants the power of an IMac but not the display? Someone who wants some expandability? Then you're looking at a Mac Pro and a minimum spending of 2500 dollars. This is vs. non-Apple vendors who sell different styles and flavors of everything. In a world where people want personaliztion and customization, it's only natural that companies offer that. I think if Apple DID offer some different models of computers san IMac, maybe their desktop sales would be a bit better.
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|AAPL is a machine for producing profits.
It succeeds spectacularly because its contrarian CLOSED ECOSYSTEM approach (integrating a full line of hardware devices to its Snow Leopard and App Store) makes life a pleasure for the markets it targets.
It succeeds because it does not ship buggy software. Microsoft boasts 8 million beta testers for every release, but stupid is stupid, and so the the stupids are rewarded year after year with buggy products and broken promises.
Which they deserve.
Open ecosystems (read: PCs) and the high worship of choice and unlimited customization in trivial matters (read: Linux) cannot produce profit or consistent delivery of quality over the long term.
full disclosure: 2455 shares of AAPL, basis cost $71.44
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|"It succeeds because it does not ship buggy software. Microsoft boasts 8 million beta testers for every release, but stupid is stupid, and so the the stupids are rewarded year after year with buggy products and broken promises.
Which they deserve."
LOL. You had me up until that little rant. I agree that it's a closed ecosystem, and that having that does makes life a pleasure for the markets it targets, this is pretty much true of most commercial closed ecosystems. Everything is more streamlined because you only have to work on the things you're releasing for the most part.
Now, you're truly in your own world if you think that OSX isn't or has never been shipped buggy, and under a rock if you haven't read recently about the data loss bug in Snow Leopard. Notwithstanding the fact that OSX has point updates for a reason..
As for choice and customization, I believe in a less selfish balance.
Don't force people who want a slighly better processor in the Mac Mini to go to an IMac, simply increase the options for the types offered with the Mini. I mean, who buys a core 2 duo for $600 nowadays? People who want an Apple computer, for all others or "the stupids" as you refer to us, we're spending 300 or less (for those who custom build) or 450 or so for Brand name computers.
Don't force people who want a future proof (Read: Tower/Desktop) to get a Mac Pro, create something in between the Mac Mini and Mac Pro that ships as a Tower or Desktop that allows the Mac owner to upgrade their video, audio, cpu or ram without having to visit an Apple Store or send in their machine.
In many cases, this isn't just an example of a closed ecosystem or limited customization, it's locking down and tricking the majority of especially first time mac users into a really locked up system where they suffer if they don't get the overpriced Apple Warranty, and even then, they're paying way more than the market value for everyday, cheap, generic upgrades for these computers should they ever choose to upgrade....UNLESS they shell out for the more expensive Mac Pro which in and of itself way overpriced at $2499 for what you get.
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|"It succeeds because it does not ship buggy software."
...and "Poof!". He's a fanboy.
Guest account data loss.
No sufficiently complex software is without bugs. Period. End of Story. You can go home now. No, really...go home.
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|I am very much impressed with your though and glad to be the part of it.
Carrol Spncr
fsbo
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|i have a mac book pro, let say it is the worst laptop i ever got. I spent over 3000 after customization. the idea was i will be receiving an laptop without any issue and the best of the best. instead, the laptop is a piece of sh*t. the battery almost exploded after 100 charges. the screen does not close correctly. the techsupport is like not having any. the techs are brain washed to think every mac is perfect and if a customer complains it is the customers fault. I am a IT professional who works in a company that has mac and pc. I just have to say if you can't get support on a platform, than that platform will not succeed in the business world. i guess that is why apple only have so little market share. if not for windows vista, microsoft would have a much better position than apple. a company that tries to quiet it's customer by saying i will only offer you warranty if and only if you sign a note for silence. that is just bad.
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|additionally, mac os x tiger IMO just worked where as Leapord and the new leapord snow, it is slow like vista and makes my mac pro super hot. never had a pc that feels like burning when using or charging. a laptop is called laptop so it can be used while on your lap. my mac book pro is actually a desktop as it can only be used on my desktop. Though the only good i can say about my mac book pro is the illuminated keyboard and the batter ( as much i hated to admit it, when it worked it did last much longer per charge compared to any laptop that my company has)
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|Odd article. It's fine to prefer one OS over the other, lots of people do. However, to claim that you can't customize the Mac OS Desktop is simply inaccurate. I run Mac OS X and have always used my own pics, a third party doc, and a non standard placement of Apple's doc.
I also run XP, and plan to upgrade to Windows 7 on that machine. Hopefully this release will be more secure than XP, and Vista. That's been where Macs have had the advantage.
Maybe that will change, now, we'll see.
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|There are a few things I find interesting about Microsoft that aren't really addressed as well as they should be.
1. The upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7. This is probably the biggest issue for all of the people that have held off from upgrading to Vista. All the comments & reviews that I have read on this issue basically state that it is a nightmare to upgrade.
2. Microsoft's continued FUD campaign against anything else other then Microsoft. Its no secret that Microsoft specially targets both the Apple & Linux based operating systems. However they continue to use BSD licensed software in their operating systems.
3. Microsoft’s failure to meet there expectations. Every operating system that they release is supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. But if you look at history every other operating system that they release has major issues, 98 (first edition), ME, Vista. Not to mention that when XP first came out, but was resolved with (two) service packs.
4. Microsoft’s contribution back to open source. Where is Microsoft’s contribution to open source? It’s strange to me that companies and individuals basically have to develop programs to solve issues with Microsoft’s operating systems such as antivirus, registry cleaners, optimizers, firewall, web browsers etc.
5. Microsoft is a monopoly. Pure and simple if the average percentage of computers running a windows operating system is greater then 75% of the total market, how is that not a monopoly? I am sure that there are other companies that could achieve better results then what Microsoft does if they had the same amount of capital. Not to mention that most consumers aren’t aware of options, or are afraid because of Microsoft’s continued FUD campaign.
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|if microsoft is a monopoly, what then exactly is apple?
you can only run the osx on hardware from one company
you can only get officially licensed itouch/phone apps from one source
you can only officially sync your ipod with one program
i think that apple is more of a monopoly in every sense of the word than microsoft is. the only reason more people haven't realized thqt yet is because apple has such a small marketshare in everything except smartphones.
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|A monopoly is a company that controls more than 75% of a given market - Apple controls 8-10% of the PC market, which makes them a small competitor. Their share of smart phones isn't much better.
To call them a monopoly would be pretty silly, given they don't have anything remotely close to the market share to be called one.
There are certain marketing tactics and bundling practices that are all perfectly legal, unless you're
a) In a monopoly situation (meaning you control the market)
b) Using those practices to stifle competition (eg. a competitor releases a product that competes with one of your own products, so you sell your product below cost in order to destroy their business - which was a pretty common MS practice prior to the lawsuits against them)
MS is a monopoly, when it comes to Operating Systems - They do actually have a really decent OS in Windows 7, and their behavior has improved a great deal... and no, Apple doesn't have to follow the same rules as MS does - with good reason. Monopoly laws exist to encourage competition, and avoid situations where there are no options or alternatives, which is where markets stagnate, and prices become inflated (if there's no competition, not like you have any other choice)
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|I agree with Squire72 that Apple could not be consider a monopoly. Its just amazing how Microsoft advocates are so negative such as if anyone points out a flaw in Microsoft, its oh thats so mean I can't believe people bad mouth Microsoft after what Microsoft has done to create jobs, blah, blah, blah (same crap everytime). But if you want to make fun of Apple or Linux is oh well they are the minority so its ok.
And yes Windows 7 is decent for a Microsoft operating system, but what does that really mean? I would rather use a free operating system like a Linux or BSD distro then pay for a 'decent' Microsoft operating system.
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|monopoly: Exclusive possession of a market by a supplier of a product or service for which there is no substitute.
Apple has monopolistic tactics that's for sure. They only don't have the market share to be a Monopoly. That Microsoft is still a monopoly is debatable. That people still want to use their OS when you have Mac and Linux is another thing.
Is MS Office a monopoly? I don't think so... we're the stupid ones using those products and making them the biggest market share out there.
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|I love this: A monopoly is a company that controls more than 75%.
How did you come up with that number? And why not it is not 76% but 75%??
Microsoft was never accused of being a monopoly since it is by nature not a monopoly.
Microsoft was accused of attempting to setup a monopolistic market by using their market dominance unfairly.
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|???
atrius:
In the US: Monopoly is defined as any company with a product that holds more than 75% of the market. This by itsefl is not illegal and does not invoke anti-trust regulation. To invoke such requires that the company with the monopoly uses that monopoly to dominate another market or abuse competitors.
In the EU: a monopoly is any company with a product that has the majority of the market for that product. Again, this is not illegal, but the EC can then invoke regulation and force compliance with whatever they dream up on a whim.
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|Agreed, apple is to small compared to the rest of the world who uses pc and thus can not be called a Monopoly. However, they do have a closed system where once you choose to go with them you can only follow their path that was choosen for you. So I think the word monopoly is used as the control of it's user base not how they play in the market shares.
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|Then use the proper words? Control-freaks != monopoly...not even in bizzaro world.
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|This really does read like a paid announcement for Microsoft Windows.
As someone who has worked for our friends in Redmond, I feel I should point out that the decision to 'crowdsource' Windows 7 is not a matter of honestly caring what the average home consumer cares about; Ballmer and DeVaan have just realized that people will download any Next Great Thing, and that it's cheaper to put the iso up and let people eat up bandwidth than it is to hire an STE or SDET - even a dashtrash.
Yes, Microsoft has done some phenomenal attempts at marketing - and this article seems to be just a continuation of that effort.
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|The article rings so true and yet it's very amusing to see who responds with the hate. ;) If the article was about lies and half truths it's logical to hate on it, but if it's truthful, just accept it and eat it.
It's like some politicians talking about "choice and competition", but then don't realize when there are video/audio tapes about them saying "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer system." Or how some people praise tryannical communists like that funny character (more from China than North Korea) in the Team America movie from the well known Trey Parker and Matt Stone of Southpark fame.
Some people would want you to believe communism is a good and great thing, but there are those of us don't buy it, just because it's said. Microsoft is choice, Microsoft is capitalism, Microsoft is freedom...but feel free to disagree.
(yes I am being somewhat coy) ;)
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|If by coy you mean "gay", I agree.
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|Hey dude, the reason the line was longer at the Burger King "have it your way" instead of "have it our way" is because at the "your way" line you have to wait for them to custom prepare it for you. So you are standing around while the other people are moving quickly along. The analogy would be, I guess, trying to get help from the Windows help desk, having to offload your entire hard drive before you can install Windows 7, and praying that your "custom" order works the first time and you don't need to call all your friends to figure out what went wrong.
Or you could buy an OS which "just works". Other than getting that completely wrong, and spinning out a bunch of other illogical descendant theories, the rest of your article is lame, lamer, and lamest.
Score: -2
|Agree 1000%. My God, the only thing missing from this piece of utter drek was some fine print stating "Paid for by the Bill Gates for Sainthood Campaign." I think I'm actually feeling queasy. But I'll fight through the nausea to rebut some of the greater absurdities:
I was part of the 7 beta like so many others. I actually got about 180 people to sign off on a request that we sent to Microsoft asking for the OPTION to add one button to Explorer..a button that represents functionality that's still in the code, but hidden. Their reply? "This isn't part of our roadmap," or something very close to that. There was a little more blah-blah thx-but-no-thx babble, but that was it. What "roadmap" takes away a basic navigation option that people have relied on for 15 years? So much for listening to the users.
Windows 7 is no more customizable than any previous version. Oh, I moved taskbar to the top, I'm a rebel! The fact that said taskbar is now a collection of random giant icons that move around like ferrets is a whole other issue.
Simplicity, huh? Yeah, if hiding every possible configuration tool from the user makes things simple. That kind of simplicity also completely runs up against the ability to customize the desktop...so that's actually two rebuttals for the price of one! Windows Explorer is certainly simple to use - because its so awful now that you'll never use it! File management and system navigation now require twice as many clicks and are compounded with horrors like the auto-sorting of freshly moved files. I searched in vain for hours for a way to disable this. Here's a question, Microsoft - is it so important that everything look like a damn web browser that you couldn't even leave us the 'up one level' button? Probably the single most used button in Windows? How is that serving your users? Or the single right-click to select and open properties..was that so terrible, Microsoft?
WMP11? I don't think I can even say anything that hasn't been said before. If there is a single gleaming example of "fail" in Win7, this is it.
I could go on for about 1000 more words but what's the point? Its RTM now, and its a pile of feces, and the world will go right on running XP until either Microsoft gets its head out of the water bong or their unseated by the next big thing.
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|@miffedone I was waiting for someone to write what you did. The express line didn't move that much faster. Fewer people chose to stand in it.
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|@grizzlyadams The post is about marketing approaches. Microsoft is pushing choice and participation. That doesn't make it fully true. Is marketing ever?
I defined simplicity as compared to previous Windows versions. Could Windows be simpler still? Of course. Same could be said of Snow Leopard.
Windows Media Player? Why complain when you have iTunes? :)
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|LOL, you saved me the trouble, thx :)
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|agreed to all most all your points, but i just don't agree just works. as just works only just works for stuff from apple, try install something from a third party. when you contact apple tech support they will tell you look our software only just work for apple, if it is not apple that is your problem even we claim it just work, it just work on our term. even we say it is compatible with windows server, when it don't we don't support it and it is only just compatible when it is compatible. don't like it, well it is having it our way and no other way.
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|I am intrigued by the fact that the author chose to tie Windows 7 to the fast food business. This might lead someone to ask: Where's the beef? It is up to Windows 7 to deliver it and the meter is running. I, for one, hope they do. I need to use it and want the best tool I can get.
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|"Where's the beef?"
That'd be Linux. :p
Sorry...couldn't resist.
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|@ PC_Tool: Careful, I'll sic fatty on you.
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|"...and want the best tool I can get."
He wasn't talking about you, PC. ;)
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|i'll have a BigMac please!
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|@rauckr,
Don't even. Ever since I set the "view threshhold" to -4, I've been happy to notice we don't see much of him anymore. :)
@yountmj: Everyone is talking about me. At least, that's what the voices in my head tell me...and if I don't listen, well....they get mad. I don't like it when they get mad...
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|@ PC_Tool: See how much more fun these sites are when we don't take ourselves (or our OS choice) so seriously!
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|http://bit.ly/7isYummy
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|Take ourselves seriously? Shirley, you jest!
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|Windows 7 is the best desktop OS ever, but they did not listen to me so it was not my idea. :-(
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|Leo Laporte, a big time Mac users said yesterday in a Twitter that "Windows 7 has been in public beta test with 8 million people for a year. Snow Leopard? The beta is now." How sad is that, especially considering the data losses that some have had with Snow Leopard.
https://twitter.com/leolaporte
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|in Windows we call that a showstopper bug ;)
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|macmini is $599 to start lol ....wow the hating is strong in this one.
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|Did you miss:
"Apple sells only one computer -- the entry-level Mac mini -- for less than $999."
Score: 0
|you are such a Microsoft shill...
JoeMS : Apple product development is secretive, rather than encouraging customer feedback and participation.
Reality: Apple takes customer feed back and comments from a variety of places. Apple Store, Forums, etc...
JoeMS :* Product choice is limited to the few computers that Apple releases, such as the same aluminum construction and design for iMac or MacBook Pro.
Reality: Microsoft Windows is limited to the 10 or so SKUs offered with the same codebase but with artificial limitations to nickel and dime consumers
JoeMS: Mac OS X is deliberately designed to discourage customization. There is one look for all Mac desktops.
Reality: You can customize and change most all aspects of OSX. maybe google OSX themes?
JoeMS : Apple sells only one computer -- the entry-level Mac mini -- for less than $999. Buyers must choose to spend $999 or more.
Reality: Apple sells refurbished computers for less than $999. The iPhone is less than $999. Apple does not sell low spec crap machines; it is a premium brand. i suppose you are going to say BMW sucks because they do not sell a car for less than $9,999?
What is even funnier, is your other Microsoft Marketing story said how you hate Netbooks. LOL. Now you are bashing Apple for not making a crappy super low spec machine.
OSX is better than Vista 7, more people are turning on to this reality everyday evidenced by Apples growing market share. if you think Apple does not listen to what people say, you are out of your mind. Of course, this is a Microsoft propaganda item. i laugh at you paid Microsoft shills. So pathetic. did they teach you to sell out in college? Did you even go to college? Probably not based on the drivel you write.
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|@Fatty It's amazing how you twist information.
Fact: Apple doesn't release public Mac OS X betas and collect user feedback during the process. Microsoft does with Windows.
Fact: Windows OEMs are building more innovative designs around version 7, including touchscreen portables (not necessarily tablets). Mac choices are way more limited.
Fact: Apple discourages Mac OS X customization. You said to Google "OS X themes." Right, they're from third parties doing what Apple considers to be hacking its beautiful user interface.
Fact: All major computer manufacturers offer refurbished systems. All but one "new" Mac models sells for $999 or more.
For absolute, clear clarification: I didn't bash "Apple for not making a crappy super low spec machine." Nor did I advocate netbooks. I wrote that except for entry-level Mac mini, Apple only gives consumers the choice to spend $999 or more on a computer -- and I'll clarify here that's "new" (which should have been obvious).
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|@Joe: typical Fatty; if it in any tarnishes his beloved Apple, it cannot be true...
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|"JoeMS : Apple product development is secretive, rather than encouraging customer feedback and participation."
As Joe stated, Apple has never released a beta of there OS publicly. In fact, any betas that have been posted (torrents, FTP, etc) are attacked and usually removed first time they appear. How in any way, shape, or form does that allow normal, everyday users to provide feedback on what Apple is doing? It doesn't because the Apple mentality is that "this is OUR software and you aren't smart enough to make suggestions".
"The iPhone is less than $999."
Seriously?! So now you have elevated the iPhone to a computing platform? A smartphone, sure, but comparing it with full size desktops, laptops, and netbooks... wow, that's a stretch even for you.
"Reality: Microsoft Windows is limited to the 10 or so SKUs offered with the same codebase but with artificial limitations to nickel and dime consumers"
As compared to the single code base that is OS X. I believe (and what you missed) that Joe was referring to hardware options.
"What is even funnier, is your other Microsoft Marketing story said how you hate Netbooks. LOL. Now you are bashing Apple for not making a crappy super low spec machine."
Ok, you're off your meds again... where did Joe bash Apple for not making a low end netbook?
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|You must have typed this on your Mac. I noticed the poor grammar, bad spelling and the lack of capitalization.
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|@fatty- i've read your psosts for some time and usually get a good laugh, but this one takes the cake. Are you for real?? Do you really belive this stuff? Steve Jobs (and Apple) are the Microsoft of the 1990s. The have grown too fast and produce shoddy quality. They are closed. They are secretive. They rely more on marketing these days than actual products. You need a good wake up call.
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|Apple releases betas, to developers which are in the thousands...
have it their way ;)
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|I love watching you twist and squirm and changing the scope of your Microsoft talking points...
#1 depends how you define public...Apple does in fact have 'public' betas of their OS and collects feedback during the process. Of course you knew this. you seem to think Apple goes off, builds their OS, and does no testing beyond the development team writing the code. ROFL. Where do you Microsofties come up with this stuff? perhaps you should Google osX beta? here let me give you a link: http://www.neowin.net/ne...-3-released-for-testing yeah, no beta. ROFL
#2 Apple already has touch screen portables...iPhone and iPod. Apple also has touch enabled laptops and the new Magic Mouse which Microsoft is copying. i guess the Microsoft talking points are stuck on touch now?
#3 How specifically does Apple discourage customization? You can change the fonts, colors, icons, etc... OSX has all of this exposed so even third parties can provide tools to do it. Do a google search. i know this strays from your Microsoft talking points power point though. I am not sure what you last sentence is other than a Microsoft rant.
#4 You are talking in circles. i can say the same about Windows... no choice. Where is my $10 crappy Microsoft Windows cloner? you simply picked out the microsoft talking point about a specific dollar point.
Score: -13
|wrong. https://appleseed.apple....n/WebObjects/SeedPortal
I love you clueless Microsoft fanboys.
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|@dont_coder ; Apple can be dinged for many things. Joe is just a paid Microsoft shill and I am exposing him for what he is.
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|@fatty I don't receive money from Microsoft or any other tech company. If I'm such a Microsoft shill, then why were you so happy about my post "Apple declares war on the entire PC industry?"
@fatty, I'm going to give you some sincere advice: You should be more careful what you write on public Websites. Calling me "a paid Microsoft shill" could be considered defamation of character, for which I could sue you. My integrity as a journalist depends in part on my impartiality -- that I don't take money from companies that I write about as you accused. You state as fact that "Joe is just a paid Microsoft shill and I am exposing him for what he is." You are grossly mistaken.
You may disagree with what I write, and that's OK. The debate between us can be fun and thoughtful reading for other Betanews visitors. These debates enrich the posts. But defamation is a place you shouldn't go. I'm philosophically opposed to our sue-happy legal system. Another journalist might have his lawyer give you a call. Be smart. Attack the writing, not the writer, and you should be OK.
Score: 5
|1. - to select beta developers and testers this week - how exactly is this public in any sense of the word?
2. Touch has existed long before Apple came around and MS has had touch devices before Apple as well, everything they are doing with touch is based off of surface which has been around for quite some time now...
4. This makes no sense...what do you mean no choice? You can do anything you want in windows and use whatever you want. Apple has one design concept whereas, pcs come in all sizes, shapes, colors and options.
Score: 2
|@ joewilcox: fatty's comments are often over the top. The community is best served by thoughtful discussion. No one is completely impartial. We all have opinions. Anyone who flings mud rather than offering substantive thoughts is contributing nothing. If he is a Mac supporter, he is driving potential undecided people away from the platform. What's the point?
Score: 1
|I agree that the iPhone is a computer. also the iPods are computers. even a digital watch is a computer, because it has the power to compute.
Score: 0
|"Apple has never released a beta of there OS publicly."
Actually, in 2000 they did. It was codenamed "Kodiak". It was a preview release before Mac OS 10.0 "Cheetah".
Still, it wasn't free... naturally. It cost $29.95. In other words, Apple customers were expected to pay to give feedback on what the actual OS was going to be like. That version cost much more, and it should have been released as a free beta, too.
Score: 2
|@ joewilcox: I still don't understand why fatty wasn't banned from the site. His comments are useless and provocative 90% of the time. I know some will cry censorship but I'm considering moving to another place because I'm tired of seeing gray bands all around the comments (FYI, those are comments from fatty bellow the viewing threshold and they are properly set IMO). I agree that he is not favoring Apple. I hate that brand a little more each new day because of his fanaticism.
Score: 1
|@ DonGato: fatty is not the spokesman for Apple. Don't let his behavior color your opinion of the platform. There are extremists on all sides. You don't have to like the Mac but, for God's sake, make it for a more substantive reason than fatty's excesses.
The viewing threshold is your friend. Think of it as a flame filter.
Score: -2
|I don't agree that Apple discourages customization. There are numerous options for customization, right in the OS. Are you certain that you've explored this? I don't see how you missed all the options.
Apple does offer refurbs - the button is right on the Apple Store, on the web. You must have missed that too.
Score: -2
|Hey, give Fatty a break. It took over a week to get his Mac working again after he upgraded to Snow Leopard and he still hasn't got everything working yet.
Score: 2
|Just because Microsoft allowed feedback does not indicate that the company took heed of any of it - other than what agreed with the direction they were already heading.
Both the MS and Apple ways of doing business have good points, and drawbacks - your article makes MS seem as though it was the overwhelming choice of a people who actually have a choice - that is far from the truth. Most people are locked in by their applications to use MS products, and it starts early in life.
The MS approach can achieve success, but it can also fail spectacularly. Face it, any other company you can name would be down the tubes by now if they had released such a stinker as Vista. It was only the length of time that Microsoft has been in command of the market that is letting it survive.
If Microsoft wanted to let people have it their own way, they would not have removed the hierarchical menu structure that had served many well for years. I know I was not the only beta tester who asked for its inclusion.
Score: -1
|Macs has nothing to do with typing errors, your sense are wrong!
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|@ rauckr: Well, his fanaticism is extreme but he is not alone and adds to my lack of respect for what people call "Apple innovation". I only respect unbiased comments like the ones of friends I trust. It's like I go out there saying in every post that Windows 7 is the best software ever. I would lose credibility in my posts for sure. :P
Score: 2
|@joeMS : you certainly have an agenda in your writing which has a very strong anti-Apple bias and very strong pro-Microsoft bias. Certainly seems odd. But then again, journalism as a whole these days is so slanted in a single direction it is very hard to find anyone writing unbiased stuff, or at least providing a real argument from both sides rather than cherry picking things and choosing sensationalized wording to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
As far as a shill....as others have said, and these are not my words....
http://iphone.sys-con.com/node/456859
"If it walks like a shill, acts like a shill, and smells like a shill....
My sincere advice, if you are getting paid by Microsoft or a Microsoft sponsored entity, just declare it to avoid any confusion, honesty is key. if you are not, review your journalism notes from college and at least try to maintain some semblance of impartiality. Not everything Microsoft does is the best, nor is it the worst. The same thing can be said about Apple, Google, IBM, Oracle, etc...
Score: -9
|I am not a fanatic. i am simply pointing out the misleading fallacies in these amateurish stories. I get that Joe has a personal hatred of Apple and is in love with everything Microsoft. why he hates Apple so much is not known to me.
Score: -9
|@rebradley - i still have Snow Leopard in a box and have not updated. i usually do not upgrade _any_ OS until there is at least one SP, preferably two. i have been meaning to do a fresh install, but have not had the time. I should have time over the holidays.
Score: -5
|The very first line in the body of the article says... VIEWPOINT. Do you know what that means?
Score: 1
|@yountmj
"Actually, in 2000 they did. It was codenamed "Kodiak". It was a preview release before Mac OS 10.0 "Cheetah"."
Aha! Snow Leopard now makes sense to me.
Score: 0
|8,000,000 beta testers, largest software beta test in history, unlike Apple, Microsoft actually means it when it says 'Have it Your Way'.
oh yeah, and Windows 7 was my idea ;)
Score: 6
|Yeah, the burger king slogan is good for Microsoft to use...crappy, greasy, bad for your health burgers on one hand, and crappy, bloated, insecure, bad for your security OS'es and hardware on the other. It does make sense.
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|So, that data killing bug = security...got it...
Its so secure the user cannot even get their files!
Score: 3
|Hey! Burger King is the flame broiled one!
Not greasy, tops in flavor, and uh, tasty!
Score: 2
|@ flibberyGiveIt: Burger King serves Whoppers. Come to think of it, I've heard some whoppers being served in this venue also.
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|I'm sure the Apple community is very proud of your defending them, fatty.
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|I'd think they might be a little more proud if he didn't appear to want to be shoved off a very high bridge. (I am not suggesting anyone should, merely that everyone wants to.)
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|ArtfulDadga,
8 million beta testers? The corporation will still ship a buggy product. They always do.
Face it
Apple doesn't ship buggy products. Face it, NO appeal to mediocrity wins in the long run.
full disclosure: 2455 shares of AAPL, average price paid $71.44
Ytorch
Score: -6
|Damnit, now I want a double whopper with cheese, onions, no lettuce, tomato, no pickles and a tall vanilla and chocolate milkshake...sigh
Score: 0
|"Apple doesn't ship buggy products"
Bwaaahahahaha!!!!
Too funny, man. Way too funny....
So the guest account data loss issue isn't bug, but a feature?
Score: 1
|You know it is. Like, a Windows 9x complete lack of security facepalm feature.
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|PC_Tool : If you've read the current news, they fixed that bug already!
Apple only shipped higher quality hardware and software, their built-in utilities is alot better.
Throughout these decade, those virus are a feature uh?
And holes in their software are bonus uh?
Now thats funny!!!!! LOL!!
Score: -3
|@PC_Tool: I suspect that the guest account issue affects only a small number of users. That doesn't make it acceptable especially in view of the seriousness of the consequences. Having said that, this issue has attracted so much attention precisely because OS X has had so few issues that rise beyond the nuisance level. If this were not true, the Mac would not consistently get the computer industry's highest customer satisfaction survey numbers.
Score: -1
|@Slim_Is_In: My understanding is that OS X 10.6.2 has a fix for guest account issue but it is not released yet.
Score: -1
|Slim:
He said: Apple doesn't ship buggy software.
I said: Wrong.
The point still stands: He's full of it. They fixed it? Well...duh?
"Throughout these decade, those virus are a feature uh?
And holes in their software are bonus uh?"
You're the only one making those comments. Do you often get involved in imaginary conversations?
@rauckr: Again, the point of my comment still stands. He said Apple doesn't ship buggy software. He could have said that about anything and gotten relatively the same response. No sufficiently complex software is without bugs...regardless of who developed it.
Score: 0
|My software is sufficiently complex and without bugs...but then, it hasn't been written yet. I'm sure a few will pop up when it is. :)
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|@randomevent: I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Best of luck on the upcoming release!
*grin*
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|