RSSWhy former employees say Microsoft can't innovate
By Joe Wilcox | Published February 9, 2010, 6:43 PM
By many measures, Microsoft is simply too big. The bigness is in the gut, like a middle-aged man who drinks too much beer and eats too many classic potato chips. In computing years, Microsoft most certainly is a middle-aged company. So is Apple, which by comparison is leaner and healthier. What's up with Microsoft's gut?
Based on communications with current and former employees, Microsoft's midriff problem is one of middling middle management. The number of middle mangers swelled over the last decade, and they also are the employees making key management decisions, which includes who gets laid off or fired and where the remaining people work. What manager will fire himself or herself? (Before continuing, let me be clear that only former Microsoft employees will be quoted, and anonymously at that. Current employees would only communicate with me on background, for concern of risking their jobs).
One former employee, whom I'll call Boris, had this to say about how last year's layoffs affected him and his former team: "Out of a starting staff of nearly 20, four remained, all managers. I'm not sure what they manage." Who made the decisions about whom to layoff? Another former Microsoft employee whom I'll refer to as Fred said that a "dramatic increase in middle management, and the fat cutting the muscle, is right on target."
I don't have figures on how many middle managers Microsoft now employs. But various former, and even some current, employees say that their number of "reports" -- meaning people they report to -- has increased by five to seven managers above them during 2000. Typically that works out to double or more the layers of middle management over the decade.
"When I started at MSFT in 1996, there were six people between me and [Microsoft cofounder] Bill Gates," Boris said. "In 2009, there were 13 people between me and [Microsoft CEO] Steve Ballmer." Fred said, "the number of managers between me and the CEO went from six to 10," during the last decade. Another long-time Microsoftie, whom I'll call Barry, saw his reports go from six to 12.
Microsoft's swelling workforce gives some hint of the midriff, middle management problem. In June 2000, at the end of fiscal 2001, Microsoft employed 39,100. At the end of fiscal 2010, even after 5,000 layoffs, Microsoft employed 93,000.
'All Praise the Holy Reorg'
Microsoft manages middle management by way of seemingly perennial reorganizations. Every former or existing Microsoft employee I communicated with for this post and the accompanying "Microsoft Confession" series harshly criticized the reorganizations.
"How many reorgs have ever benefited anyone except the folks on top?" asked a former employee I'll call Jack. "The people that need to be cut at MS are the managers that don't support their teams and only support their own careers. I've watched countless super visionary managers get bogged in politics and leave."
Another former employee, whom I'll call Amanda quipped: "All praise the holy reorg, which is an approximately annual religious festival in certain sects, I mean divisions, of Microsoft." Recent reorganizations -- those publicly disclosed or uncovered over the last 12 months -- include desktop operating system, developer tool, entertainment, mobile device, search and server organizations, among others. This year's reorg affecting Microsoft's TV products came with the departure of Enrique Rodriguez, a corporate vice president.
Bill Veghte is one of Microsoft's highest-profile executive departures steaming from reorganization. Microsoft announced Veghte's departure on January 14, after he failed to find a new position following the summer 2009 reorg that put Steven Sinfosky in charge of the Windows & Windows Live group. Weeks later, Microsoft acknowledged the departure of Mike Nash, like Veghte a 19-plus year veteran. At the end of 2009, Microsoft also lost Chris Liddell, as chief financial officer. The point: Microsoft is shedding top-level managers all while middle-manager ranks add bulge to the organizational structure.
The reorganizations can be looked at another way -- as reflecting ineffective management processes that Microsoft tries to resolve by changing which groups report to which groups or to whom. In theory, Microsoft's five business groups -- Business, Entertainment & Devices, Online Services, Server & Tools and Windows & Windows Live -- should be small enough to be nimbler than a company employing more than 90,000. But there are mitigating factors, such as reporting hierarchies that cut across different groups and supporting organizations, like marketing and services, that have responsibilities affecting all five Microsoft divisions. In many ways, Microsoft's organizational structure is best described as a middle schooler's messy room (also a Windows Plus! Pack for Kids theme).
Incentives that Discourage Risk, Innovation
Related to gut-bulging middle management: some HR review and compensation processes discourage many employees from taking the kinds of risks necessary for Microsoft to regain its competitive edge and, quite frankly, to innovate in truly meaningful ways. Microsoft's definition of innovation, for most of its product groups, is anything that preserves the status quo -- meaning extending Office and Windows and increasingly server software like SharePoint and Windows Server. Risk is a dirty word for many employees looking to advance at Microsoft.
A former employee whom I'll call Rodriguez said of the HR review process: "Microsoft has become too 'scorecard' heavy and highly litigated to the point it kills an employee's spirit of free thinking and creativity, since everything a person does is closely judged by management." Among the former Microsofties I communicated with over the last couple of months, Rodriguez was the harshest critic of Microsoft's review process, which he observed is going on right now; fiscal year ends on June 30 and reviews occur midway.
Several former and existing employees tried to explain Microsoft's seemingly complicated review and compensation process. People are hired at a certain level and can advance up levels, which have corresponding salary ranges. During reviews process, employees are graded with such designations as 'exceed,' 'achieved' and 'underperformed' commitment ratings. These are based on numerous criteria, which include management assessment of performance and achieving goals set during the previous review process. Other criteria include "contribution rankings." Problem: These criteria sometimes work cross-purposes to performance. Fred explained:
Processes became more bureaucratic and individuals were less empowered to take action. In fact, oftentimes the incentive structure encouraged individual contributors not to do the right thing, but just to do what they committed to in their review the year prior. In other words, if you committed to include Feature A in Windows, and halfway through the year you realized that was a bad thing for Windows and Microsoft customers, the incentive structure actively discouraged you from trying to kill the feature, because then you wouldn't have achieved your commitments.
Barry also made similar complaints about the "decentives" to doing a good job. "The metrics are too complex," he said. "We were evaluated also on a client's satisfaction with our work." The client could range from a reporter for Microsofties working in PR to developers for employees doing product development or for anyone to other groups within Microsoft.
Several current and former employees wanting to do better or escape from stifling management situations would request transfers. However, many managers wanted to keep their staff in part "because it would reflect badly on them," Barry said.
"I was put in 'performance detention' due to wanting to expand to another part of the company and ended up in the 'crapper' list," said another former employee, whom I'll call Mickey.
What About those 5,800 Layoffs?
Last year's layoffs surprised many Microsoft employees. There are looming questions about whether or not Microsoft dismissed the right employees. From Friday through Monday, I posted four stories from former employees laid off in 2009. Each story reveals something about the layoff process and the middling middle management problems. Posted as Microsoft Confessions:
These four stories and others I received but didn't publish raise questions about whether Microsoft laid off the right people, whether certain groups were targeted and whether more middle managers should have been axed. Perhaps the most visible of the surprising layoffs: Don Dodge, who within two weeks of being let go was hired by Google.
Based on former and current Microsoft employee stories, five trends can be seen in Microsoft's layoff of 5,800 employees during 2009. Laid-off employees tended to be:
- High salaried
- With the company eight or more years
- Older -- many in their late 30s or early 40s
- At a status of what Microsoft calls "long at level"
- In positions later refilled by younger, lower-salaried people
- In positions the former Microsoftie resumed as a non-employee contractor
Several former employees proactively contacted me about these six similarities, but not all people used all six. Mickey said he was:
1. Over 402. Worked at MS for almost 11 years, industry almost 28
3. Pretty high salary
4. Senior guy but brought in underleveled
Barry, who had worked as a manager, clearly understood employee evaluations and he concurred about the six similarities. I should point out that in fairness to Microsoft, I've seen this pattern elsewhere, including journalism. Older and/or higher-salaried employees are laid off and either replaced by someone younger who is paid much less or the original employee returns on a freelance basis. For Microsoft, the returnee would a contractor. Barry is someone whom Microsoft laid off and took back as contractor doing essentially the same job as before.
Barry insinuated there was some age discrimination in the layoffs, but other former Microsoftie's disagreed. Former employee Randolph (not his real name, of course) noted that four of the people he was laid off with were ages 36 to 59, with two of them being 50 or over. "Suspicious, perhaps, but just as likely a consequence of the team demographics," he said. Two of the people remaining on the team were 48 and 51. The ages were provided with Randolph's severance package. However, "the fact that they gave me the paper in the first place suggests they are sensitive to the implication of age discrimination."
Then there is "long at level," which refers to employees who have stayed in the same position or designated organizational and pay level for a long time. Presumably a long-and-level employee lacks ambition to outperform. But for a smaller product or services group, where an employee shows expertise, there may be nowhere to go but out. Other employees stay in organizations where moving up or out is discouraged or even penalized by the manager. I know of current Microsoft employees who change positions every few years simply to avoid being perceived as long at level.
In conclusion, no company's organizational structure is perfect, because too many people put their personal ambitions before the company they work for. But companies can encourage mismanagement by the organizational structure, corporate culture and review and compensation processes. Based on my communications with dozens of former and current Microsoft employees over the last couple months, Microsoft needs to streamline its management processes, empower small groups to act like startups, reward risk-taking innovation and sharply reduce the number of middle managers.
Update: Mini-Microsoft's blog and especially the comments can offer broader perspective on this post's topic. While I purposely didn't read Mini's blog when researching and writing this post (I typically avoid outside influences when writing), several of my sources sent some of the comments they had posted to the blog. Mini has an active following of current Microsoft employees. I'll resume reading now that I've finished here.
"Reports" as a synonym for the number of people in one's management chain is a new one to me. I thought it was a synonym for "directs" which refers to the number of people who report to you.
Middle management does seem to be an issue there. If I were Microsoft, I'd look very carefully at what each middle manager has done in terms of keeping up with or innovating within the industry. If they're not doing either one, out they go, because they've gotten too comfortable. Too many managers seem to have lost touch with anything other than how to please their manager or "how to manage" via paperwork using scorecards, status reports and customer surveys. Some appear to not even understand the technology area they're in charge of, because they've jumped around the company so much. My opinion is that many middle managers have stagnated even worse than the slow-advancing IC's that appear to be a common layoff target. Managers working for Wal-Mart may not need to keep up with their industry, but leadership that turns out truly innovative products does.
Score: 1
|Huge problem here.
No upper management at Microsoft gives a rip. So even though this article is right on the money, nothing will be done about it and we consumers are the ones who lose.
Ballmer needs to go retire.....
Score: 1
|Unfortunately, I dont think that microsoft is really a corporation of the future for the reasons stated in this article. Apple, though I hate them, is always on the cutting edge of innovation, leaving the rest in the dust. Also, they unveil their products in the perfect manner...
Score: 1
|LOL. You don't have to be a former MS employee to see that this lame company doesn't innovate. But don't tell MS or PC_Troll that. Their definition of innovating is copying all things Apple.
Score: -4
|Very timely article. I just spent a few days at the Microsoft executive briefing center in Dallas. They showed us some COOL stuff that will never make it into the core Windows 7 product because of fear of antitrust. These are crazy things like a useful screen-grabber utility. Yes, they have snipper in Vista/Win 7, but that's as far as they dare go. They even debated on Security Essentials but finally got the guts to do it with the idea that it cannot be a free product to corps. By charging $.50/month/device they can claim they are not abusing their monopoly. They even showed a remote client for RDP, Telnet, FTP, etc but won't release the bits. Our hosts were VERY open about this stuff.
One place where they dare be more creative is the corporate management space since they don't own a 95% market share in all tools. Exchange 2010, Office Communitcator 2010, SharePoint 2010, SCCM, SCOM etc all offer some very interesting features. We saw some really cool stuff in their "Envisioning center" and got to play with Surface.
Score: 5
|This article also speaks volumes of many other corporations, although as mjm said, MS/Google/Apple employees do benefit better than 99% just because they can afford to.
As anyone who worked at corporate know, it is always a politicized atmosphere. So MS is not actually unique in this. Just a fact that the bigger you become, the more layers to work with. I agree that too many middle managers is not a good thing. Often times middle managers cover up or report wrong or biased information to upper levels. Thus top management does not always know what goes on in the lowest/lower levels. Middle managers can give the appearance that all employees are happy and productive, when in reality they been slaving away 50-60 hr weeks to keep up with "metrics" or "goals". Thus morale is low.
The best way to fight back is to take advantage of the yearly corporate survey that comes up. If enough people honestly fill it out, then HR can make a case for change. That's the way it works, but it only works if people point it out. Companies are in business to make money, and if they knew what really went on, there will be changes (usually). YMMV of course.
Score: 2
|I've always said there are two types of people on this planet:
Those that complain, and those that do something about their complaints.
If these people had simply taken their work elsewhere, and been paid better, then they win/win.
If they would take their work elsewhere, and the pay/benefits aren't better, then you make a judgment call, and suck it up and make the money, or you QUIT WHINING and just deal, make the bank.
EVERYONE who works at Microsoft gets better salary/benefits than 99% of the world: PERIOD. Middle managers or not, they have their life set.
And complaining about how great MS as a company was/is is useless. Why do we care one bit about our corporate overlords? They are faceless, uncaring entities. The day I'm asked to leave my company, I will walk out and never talk with them again. The day I want to leave, I will simply walk away and ask for my paycheck. I have zero loyalty to any corporate entity beyond doing the work asked and getting the paycheck.
Score: 2
|Wow mjm01010101. With that attitude, they really should fire you (pretty much regardless of where you are working or what you are doing).
That said I do agree this series of MS bashing articles are pretty much about laid of people whining. Either has the same attitude as you or should be able to get a more fulfilling job then working at MS (although very possibly making less money). And then they should be thankful for being laid off. Life is too short to spend a third of it doing something you are completely indifferent to (or even dislike).
Score: 0
|What attitude? I have a fantastic work attitude, and I've been with the same employer 9.5 years now. I obviously have no beef with them? And they seem to like me. But I also have seen companies lay off intelligent, productive workers for little reason while leaving less productive workers continue to twiddle middle fingers. I harbor no malice. I keep the relationship PROFESSIONAL. I do not get emotional when friends are let go, I encourage them to get out there and do better.
The people in this rant series don't keep it professional, and many of them have moved on, but I find the whole thing kind've tacky. Of course crap like this goes on in every F1000 company, hell, it goes on in small business too!
Score: 1
|mjm01010101 is 100% correct. Where have you worked that you've seen a modicum of company loyalty to you? It's not about MS bashing (I don't like them and think their products are horribly flawed and Gates was a PR master) but that's besides the point. I was loyal to a couple of companies that burned me - one royally (fortune 100) - after 18 years of service (I finally quit). Another company had an established reputation for its bloodletting and the horrible way in which they did it (fortune 500).
However, back to the point of MS laying off so many workers but allowing their stomach to continue to protrude like a middle aged beer-drinker... They will reap what they sow. Someone is finally catching on to their ill-conceived products. I wonder just where those layoffs occurred - are they in their outsourced group or did many more Americans take the hit? Oops looks like a big GPF shone on them.
Score: -2
|"(I don't like them and think their products are horribly flawed and Gates was a PR master)"
Beside the fact that over 90% of America like to use this "flawed" software for some reason, and Bill Gates has been out of the picture now for so long (dude he's been retired)............. yes I do agree about company loyalties...there is none.
When you work as salary, keep it professional, and always keep your resume up to date.
There is almost no such thing as long term employment (in corporations) anymore.
Ironically, it is the unions which at least WANT to keep jobs HERE and give Americans decent living conditions and standards. Something wingnuts like Joe the Plumber doesn't understand, especially when he WILLFULLY took welfare "handouts" from the government during his unemployed time. (snicker)
Score: 1
|It seams to me many Betanews articles are just meant to provoke readers and not so much in providing actual valuable information.
I think Apple did a great job with the iPhone. Google has the search market covered. And yes Microsoft remains strong on the OS front.
What it seams unfair to me is pointing out all the internal issues of one particular company and make it all seam like its all roses in other ones.
I'm much more interested on the practical side of things. And the practical side of things is this. Everything is always changing.
My point is. If you really want to make a safe prediction of the future you need to dig deeper into the products being created.
Forget about the hype surrounding services and devices today. What is it that you want for the future and who do you think is better positioned for that?
Why I'm asking this? Take this into count. Microsoft is on the living room with the console and media centers. It has cloud services like Skydrive offering 25GB for whatever you want. IT has lots of sync services to take media everywhere. Also supports sharing your music and videos with the new Windows 7. You have online desktop support with both remote control protocol or the new online OS their building around Live mesh. They got email, calendars, online office applications.
Now I'm mentioning all this for one sole reason. Google and competitors offer a lot of good quality products. But none of Microsoft competitors deliver on all fronts for a total digital lifestyle integrated experience. And that's Microsoft strategy for the future. Integrate your home, your phone, your console, everything around Microsoft services if you so wish. Obviously you remain free to use other services but thing about this.
Vista sucked for many people but WIndows 7 is going strong. Imagine that Windows Mobile 7 actually offers a great integrated experience with the best thing Android and iPhone have to offer, like social media stuff (Facebook, Twitter), plus the full array and integration of Windows services like remote controlling your PC from the mobile phone and streaming your music from your home to the phone. Sending your pictures from your phone straight to the 25GB online photo album at Microsoft Photos. Sync your docs online and so on. All this with no new applications installed.
Take a good look at this ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFpwzg-AP_Q)
This isn't "lack of focus" like some "experts" on the industry mention. Microsoft is clearly gearing up products for one vision. And this isn't something new. Remember. Bill Gates had one of the first Smart homes.
Score: 0
|"total digital lifestyle integrated experience"
How do you quantify that?
Microsoft do not sell computers or laptops at all so I find it hard to believe they deliver a total experience for anything.
The Live Mesh example is classic Microsoft, it is released in Beta along with numerous competing technologies so nobody really knows which one to choose. At some point it will be discontinued and lots of customers and developers will be disappointed. It is the opposite of focus, it is more a 'throw everything at the wall and see if it sticks' strategy.
I think the whole point of sync shows Microsoft's PC-centric thinking. Storing and working on documents live in the cloud makes for a much better experience than syncing and merging.
Score: 1
|As opposed to using Linux OS and being locked in the Linux platform? As opposed to using OSX and being locked in the Apple platform? What's your beef whatever tool people use? Server and Desktop platforms are tools, nothing more nothing less. Next you tell me Gimp is production/workflow ready, DIA is drop in replacement for Visio, and thunderbird + calendar add-in will completely replace Outlook+Salesforce integration. And don't even get into 8mb+ excel files with custom macros that cause Openoffice to jump to 99% cpu usage.
I can't tell you how many small/med business I had to "cleanup" because some guy thought it was cool to use ebox or smeserver as a small business desktop server. Then they get business class accounting apps or an all-in-one business printer which only run on windows server. There is a saying, buy cheap, but twice. PC centric thinking? You mean giving the customer what they WANT as opposed to FO$$ thinking? You think the president or his secretary will be happy with a half working Linux Desktop and partially functional all-in-one printer/scanner? Or having firefox/flash crash the entire X gui stack and having to CTRL + ALT + Backspace everytime?
Yeah like everybody wants to go back to the old days when neckbeards controlled your workflow process, application choice, and resource priorities. No thanks.
Score: 0
|"As opposed to using Linux OS and being locked in the Linux platform?"
I am not locked into anything, all of the software I use is available on all 3 platforms or there are alternatives. If I wanted to switch tomorrow it could be done within a few hours, that includes my desktop and my server.
That also means I could switch to Windows if there was a specific need for it, but I would not have to switch all to Windows just for one function. Fortunately most hardware and software vendors understand that Linux and OSX exist and they use standards or they write software for those 3 platforms using cross platform toolkits.
The Microsoft solution might be better in the short-term, but I factor all costs into my CBA and being locked into Windows XP is proving to be expensive for a lot of businesses.
The old days are the days where a computer was a box on your desk running Windows. The future is all about connected devices communicating over standard protocols. Anyone still locked to the Microsoft way of doing things will suffer from a competitive disadvantage as they become just as slow to react as Microsoft.
Score: 2
|"I am not locked into anything, all of the software I use is available on all 3 platforms or there are alternatives."
That's they key word, "I", because you are only thinking about yourself and YOUR needs. Openoffice doesn't even compare properly to MS office since it STILL does not have an outlook or email integration. And don't get me started on evolution, it barely reaches outlook 97 level.
Do you think all business runs on word processors and email only? There are tons of niche apps coded in .net like Alteryx which will never work in wine.
http://www.extendthereach.com/
Heck, there are even cub scout pine car race management software (for windows) which integrates to serial interfaces attached to hardware timers.
There are a ton of specialized vertical software that people need, that you and I never hear about, but only work properly under windows or OSX because (unliek Linux) Windows and OSX are documented and standardized ABI's and API's. Some of these apps require windows DRM protection to work (because it costs thousands of $$$$) and nobody would ever ever create it for Linux. Windows + active directory + Marimba and other windows apps makes it easier to manage hundreds of windows desktops to achieve SOX compliance. Unlike Linux Desktop, Windows and OSX are complete and standardized ecosystems with standardized installers (.ex/.msi/.dmg).
There are so many disparate Linux desktop standards, it's almost impossible to create a single installer for linux applications that work across all current distros. Look at how many Linux installer variations there are for Opera browser for example. Worse is trying to test this every 6months when dependencies change and break other stuff during the forced upgrade death-march the distro maintainer gods push.
Score: 1
|"There are tons of niche apps coded in .net like Alteryx which will never work in wine."
If the business had coded it in a cross platform language like Java or C++ and Qt then they would not be tied to Windows.
I don't deny that many businesses are tied to Windows and Microsoft solutions, I just think that they are going to be at a disadvantage and I don't want MY business to have those problems. If they had good unbiased advice when taking on these systems in the first place then I think they would have made different decisions, unfortunately they were mostly guided by 'Microsoft Partners' who were being paid to give biased solutions.
P.S. Application developers do not write to OSs, they write to toolkits. It is a shame that Microsoft spent most of the 2000s killing all the cross platform ones. Ironically .net was supposed to be cross platform, but now we see Microsoft's true colours.
Score: 0
|Heavily agree on the cross-platform languages point.
Score: -1
|"If the business had coded it in a cross platform language like Java or C++ and Qt then they would not be tied to Windows."
Why would they waste time with Qt tookits when almost 95% of the target market runs windows and has native tools? And do you think it is easy to support applications on platforms that change base OS specifications/components every 6 months?
".net was supposed to be cross platform"
That framework is called mono. And BTW, developers use frameworks and follow specifications and requirements. That is why they chose .NET, because all the proper tools are in place, and it makes it easier for changes and debugging. By using QT in windows, you are introducing yet another layer of "butthurt" for the developer.
Score: 2
|You are both assuming that Windows has and always will have 90% market share. I think the release of the iPhone and iPad and all the Linux devices released in the last few years has shown that the future of computing is not based around Windows. All the innovation these days is in web applications and embedded devices.
You are all locked into Microsoft technologies forever so it is not surprising that you keep promoting the Microsoft way. You will be left behind though and any companies you advise will be at a disadvantage.
Show me where the OS specifications and components that have changed every 6 months. Qt and C++ applications written years ago still work today. Java applications run on almost anything.
Score: -1
|"You are both assuming that Windows has and always will have 90% market share"
You're right, what was I thinking. There is no spoon NEO. So which stock should I invest in quick!
"All the innovation these days is in web applications and embedded devices."
Is this what you recommend for business accountants too? Do you honestly think it's fun doing pivot tables on tiny 4" screens? Now I KNOW you never worked on a corporate level, because business doesn't work like that.
"Show me where the OS specifications and components that have changed every 6 months"
I was talking about Linux desktop. Just ask any Linux desktop application developer yourself or try and install an application from today's repository into one from 5-10yrs ago. I can run many windows apps as far back as windows 95 (15yrs ago), can you say the same?
Here read this poor developer's pain:
http://www.fewt.com/2009/10/i-give-up.html
"I've been fighting an OS (kernel and xorg mostly) that changes with nearly every patch or release"
"I just can't do it, because Ubuntu sucks. Instead of moving forward with every release, they have the uncanny ability to take Linux back in time by piling code that doesn't work on top of more code that doesn't work until they have turned their OS into a garbage salad"
Score: 1
|"I think the whole point of sync shows Microsoft's PC-centric thinking. Storing and working on documents live in the cloud makes for a much better experience than syncing and merging."
Live Mesh does not just sync, like you imply. It has cloud storage, and the storage can be synced to a mobile device too. So it is far from PC-centric.
Score: 0
|Unions have a place, and hold value, but this day and age rather they would rather lay down, blame cheaper foreign labor and pump up unsustainable salaries than fight for incentives to retool our own workforce...
The simple reply to this radical idea will be: WAAAAAAHT! Why are you trying to kill the middle class!!!!
The age of UAW line assembly 9 to 5 man turning a bolt for $75/hr is over.
Score: -2
|@ukcn001XYZ
Sorry, that is always such a good talking point for Fox news/hard right wingers. I suggest you use this site to check facts as it is politically neutral:
http://www.factcheck.org...lly_make_more_than.html
question: "Do auto workers really make more than $70 per hour?"
answer: "NO. That figure is derived from what the auto companies pay in wages, health, retirement and other benefits, and includes the cost of providing benefits to retirees."
There is more info to that, I suggest to check it out.
Score: 2
|..."in time by piling code that doesn't work on top of more code that doesn't work until they have turned their OS into a garbage salad."
Are we still talking about linux or vista here?
Score: -1
|Why does all of this crap sound like something Microsoft paid for to keep their name out there?
Seriously, it seems you are making up these stories to sound bad against Microsoft, but in the other hand are pushing there name and company more.
If Microsoft runs their company bad, then left them. It's THEIR COMPANY. If you used to work for Microsoft and didn't like their operation, create your own Microsoft and be quiet about it.
Both Apple and [the company mentioned in these stories] are innovative and do create nice products. I would say Apple innovates and refines better than [the company mentioned in these stories], but that's just me.
Score: -3
|When the people on top don't understand the bottom the ship will sink.
So once Microsoft loses enough money with Vista and 7 and whatever other garbage they are going to make, they will start the layoffs. Maybe then we will have a good product again.
Until then Apple will reign.
It takes a lot of money to pay 90,000 employees and I highly doubt Windows Vista/7 will bring that money in.
Score: -2
|"It takes a lot of money to pay 90,000 employees and I highly doubt Windows Vista/7 will bring that money in." Partypop with the F$F "there is no spoon Neo"
http://www.reuters.com/a...e/idUSTRE60R71A20100128
"The world's biggest software maker said on Thursday that net profit came to $6.7 billion"
Must be chump change eh?.
And has Canonical been profitable (yet)?
What about Sun CEO Jonathan Schwartz and that awesome "open source everything!>?>profit!" gnome underpants strategy? How did that work out?
Score: 1
|Comparing linux to M$ is ideology vs a single company.
Here's the difference. When M$ croaks (and yes one day maybe years, decades, or etc from now it will), all M$ lock-in products will get punted into the grave a well. When Sun, Canonical, Red Hat or etc die, linux is still free, open and standing on industry standards.
Good luck M$!
Score: -1
|Let me ask when has Microsoft been innovative? Lets name the products. (Waiting...) What they do best is refine products or improve on products over time. One little update or feature here and there and you wind up with Microsoft Office, XBox 360, and the jury is out on Windows 7.
Score: -4
|When has any company been innovative? Let's name the products. (Waiting...) What they all do best is refine products or improve on products over time. One little update or feature here and there and you wind up with iPod, iPhone, and the jury is out on iPad.
Score: 4
|So you cannot name one Microsoft innovation, yet you write the iPhone off as a little update?
Do you never think that you might be seeing a bias view of the world? Seriously. My guess is that you earn money selling or supporting Microsoft software and you are locked into the Microsoft world.
Score: 0
|It is an "incremental improvement" to existing technology when you consider Palm Treo (2002) was the first to combine touchscreen input + phone. So yeah, it's not like Apple had the idea first.
Score: 0
|The interface was innovative (not just being touch), along with the App Store. Nobody claims that they invented the telephone.
Score: -1
|"The interface was innovative (not just being touch), along with the App Store."
Not really, besides it being a capacitive screen. Touchscreen gestures existed before. iPhone's success was in its execution, by possessing the most fluid and consumer-friendly interface.
If anything, it qualifies as an "incremental improvement".
Score: 1
|Microsoft is a software company, without such great innovations as Visual Basic, Visual Studio, .NET, Windows, Windows Server, Would we even be sitting around posting these comments right now? We complain about Microsoft but a lot of companies have been successful riding the coat tails of Microsoft. You talk about apple, I ask you to got back in time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxOp5mBY9IY .
What would Apple be doing now if not for Microsoft?
Score: 4
|Toss in Microsoft's Dreamspark program for developers, technet plus for IT geeks, Ultimate office 2007 Steal ($59 for College students), and Microsoft partner networks. It makes it easy to take advantage of the best tools at the lowest cost for personal or business use.
Even hardcore Apple fans surely look forward to Microsoft Office 2011 for mac.
Score: 3
|@ VampireFrost: If there is any reason Microsoft can't innovate its because the US government along with the EU ties its hands with silly antitrust crap while China is laughing all the way to the bank. Same with Intel. After our own government destroys what we have left of our tech industry we'll really be in a good possession with all the chips, software, and computers to do anything made in China.
Score: -1
|This means the companie can't do any other projects as long as they haven't decided on the Ballot screen yet? Get serious, Microsoft came with proposals to the EU until they where good enough.
Not the other way around. That's what they got after crashing/hacking/cracking ISO!!
Score: 0
|Don't worry, if china posses a resource the government wants, we'll invade! That's a perk of outspending the chinese 7x fold in military. Our little country spends equal to the rest of the world combined when it comes to military.... that means everyone loves us and never having to say we're sorry!
Score: -1
|Why former employees say Google can't innovate
Score: 0
|Which former employees are saying Google can't innovate?
Score: -1
|In the current lexicon "Microsoft cannot innovate" means Microsoft does not participate in the silly Web 2.0/AJAX trinket-making by Google and the rest.
Seriously Joe, GTFO with your whining. Or, alternatively, educate yourself on technology and innovation by actually studying Microsoft products.
Score: -3
|@ OneToOne "...In the current lexicon "Microsoft cannot innovate" means Microsoft does not participate in the silly Web 2.0/AJAX trinket-making by Google and the rest..."
Are you on drugs??? What about Bing? IE 8? Office 2010?!! (Office 2010 will mark the debut of free online versions of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote, which will work in popular web browsers (Internet Explorer, Mozilla Firefox, Google Chrome, and Apple Safari -Wikipedia)
Score: 7
|"Microsoft cannot innovate" actually means that Microsoft cannot create new and interesting products which define a new product category, not copying everything produced by Apple or Google.
Aero Snap is not innovative.
Score: 0
|He is not on drugs, he is just very seriously bias because he earns money selling Microsoft products. People like that find it hard to see outside their own ecosystem.
Score: 0
|I think Aero Snap is copied from Ubuntu :D
Score: 0
|Apparently both Gnome and KDE like this "noninnovative" thing (according to billybob), yet somehow useful enough to warrant copying this feature:
http://www.omgubuntu.co....-snap-ubuntu-linux.html
http://linuxology.wordpr...-can-kde-aero-snap-like/
Score: 1
|Microsoft is hardly the only company with these issues, esp. in the tech sector where most of the good jobs have been off-shored. They just happen to produce the de facto standard desktop computing environment - but not for long at the the rate their going. The total lack of connection with their users, the ever-increasing "Microsoft tax" and the unwillingness to deal with lingering security issues are going to drag them down. PR cannot save you forever, whether your a career communist named Obama or a career capitalist named Ballmer.
Score: -1
|It is the only company amongst it's peers of Google and Apple, neither of those suffer from the same problems.
Score: 1
|What problems, realbillybob?
Score: 1
|@dougau
Just think how much would get done if every one of Microsoft's 56,654 US based employees were aloud to be free thinking and creative on the job,
That is why Microsoft can't innovate because anyone that thinks outside the box is ignored.
If you don't innovate you die. Microsoft steals ideas from other companies and don't even know how to steal the good things. If Apple were to release OSX to everyone Microsoft's OS market share would die. That would also help OSX because then companies that have not ported over their software would do so as the market share increases. Most people are just waiting on something better then Windows.
Score: -1
|If this was the truth, Apple would have already done so. But Apple know that this just isn't the case. I've used Windows and OSX and Linux in the last few years and while each has its good points and bad, the one I want at home and at work remains Windows; not because it is the best at any one particular thing, but because it is the least bad at them all as a whole.
To most people (i.e. not power users), easiest to use = best. Nothing's eaier than Windows for them, so Windows will remain the best since past a certain age, they'll never switch. I have seen this all too often. A number of people I know still run Win2K or even Win98SE because they fear changing to anything newer... because they fear they will not understand the new system and feel overwhelmed by it.
Score: 1
|I use Windows, OSX and Linux on a daily basis and I much prefer Linux because it is easy to use and just lets me get my work done.
I know a lot of Windows users who are scared to use Linux or Mac because they think that they are hard to learn. It normally takes about a week of use before they are raving about how great OSX/Linux is.
Do you really think that Windows is going to be easier to use than an iPad? People do not want to install drivers, updates and virus scanners to just browse the web.
Linux is on 30% of the netbooks that Dell sells and it is also on most new smartphones released these days. It is also in 90% of embedded devices, somewhere that Microsoft used to dominate.
Microsoft has lost the embedded, smartphone and netbook markets to Linux over the last 10 years, I can see the 'slate' market going the same way.
Score: 0
|"I know a lot of Windows users who are scared to use Linux or Mac because they think that they are hard to learn."
Or maybe people actually tried Linux Desktop, thought it really really s_cked, and went back to what they LIKED better. Maybe it was because half-@ssed video editors in Linux Desktop don't cut it compared to Sony Vegas Video? Maybe because just viewing the web with Linux with poor antialiased fonting support compared to cleartype or Apple font hinting. Maybe because my clients who are professional graphic artists PREFER Photoshop to the non native CMYK kludge freak appropriately named GIMP? Being FREE doesn't make a difference if your native applications stink and it takes using esoteric workarounds just to get simple things done. And most freeware available on Linux Desktop is also available (and runs faster/better aka Firefox) than on Linux desktop. Are you trying to tell people there is no spoon and that Linux desktop is a better desktop OS than either Windows or OSX?
Score: 1
|"Are you trying to tell people there is no spoon and that Linux desktop is a better desktop OS than either Windows or OSX?"
What do you need the OS for? If it is browsing the web without worrying about clicking the wrong link and using Skype then Linux would make a very good desktop, it boots much more quickly than Windows and is easier to keep updated. If you want iTunes and video editing and Photoshop then OSX is your best choice, unless you are a professional studio, then you need Cinelerra and Linux.
If you need to edit 8Mb Excel documents and access your Sharepoint server then Windows is probably best, but it will be your only choice forever so you will find ways to defend that choice.
Score: -3
|"If you want iTunes and video editing and Photoshop then OSX is your best choice"
What makes it the best choice exactly? So you telling me there is no middle end, it's either Linux or OSX. You basically saying windows doesn't even exist.
BTW, I have sub $75 entry level Vegas Video software that runs circles around cineleraa for production ready H.264 HD videos.
lets compare:
cinelerra:
http://www.ipodtouchfans...rums/imgcache/30003.png
$79 vegas video:
http://i33.tinypic.com/11qtt7m.jpg
And don't forget that windows and osx has better native integrated video capturing support for many camcorders than linux. And better DVD authoring tools.
Score: 0
|So you saying, the boot experience is better in Linux, so that's the best reason to migrate people?
You saying hibernate or suspend doesn't exist for windows (even though we all know Linux has very laughable working hibernate/suspend records?)
If people want to work remotely, they have to drop or change and retrain from their entire workflow tools and go google apps via cloud?
Here's a hint, we already do better than that. We leave our computers set to power on/power off at certain times in BIOS, we use our windows netbooks and VPN into our network and use remote desktop to work as if we were there.
No change in workflow tools, no retraining, and no dropped features, and maintain full sox compliance.
Score: 0
|"Do you really think that Windows is going to be easier to use than an iPad?"
Can your $499 ipad do skype, yahoo video chat, video conferencing, multitasking and play flash and shockwave content (hint view flash porn) and use normal business/msoffice apps like my $299 windows netbook?
If I wanted a limited media experience all I have to do is put Linux Desktop on my netbook, I can do that for $200 cheaper.
Score: 0
|If Cinelerra is so bad then why do professional studios use it?
Windows does exist, but things like the gradual slowing, viruses and bad drivers mean that I do not think it is a good choice unless you really need it. The best reason to use Linux is the fact that it will run on your existing hardware and it is immune to viruses. It also does not have the constant problems that Windows seems to have.
There are plenty of VPN and RDP packages in Linux, why would you need full-blown Windows on the client if that is all you are doing? Powering on or off through the BIOS is not a feature of the OS.
Score: 0
|"If Cinelerra is so bad then why do professional studios use it?"
Such as? Links please?
"things like the gradual slowing"
Ujm Yeah, Gradual slowing? Is that a technical term? Explain please? And BTW parts of the Windows registry was virtualized starting with Vista to prevent any kind of registry build up slowing. If the machine is properly locked down, it doesn't magically start slowing for no reason at all. Are you comparing Windows XP (2002) from 2 generations ago?
"The best reason to use Linux is the fact that it will run on your existing hardware and it is immune to viruses"
So you saying Ubuntu 9.04 will magically run (and work just as fast) on a Pentium II with 32 megs ram as it does on a core2 qud core with 8gig ram? You saying most people keep hang on to their PCs for 10yrs straight and never upgrade?
"Linux has no virus"
And what happens if you go beyond the walled garden repository? Like editing your sources list and start downloading from popular linux software sites?
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1349678
http://www.omgubuntu.co....ensaver-for-ubuntu.html
Of course you have no antivirus, so how would a normal user know anyways?
"It also does not have the constant problems that Windows seems to have."
I have windows 7 and run as standard user, not windows 95, what exactly is my "constant problem"?
Score: 2
|Well, as an example, the last Windows 7 laptop I used ran so slowly that I had to wait 2-3 seconds to scroll down in a web page. Some Windows alert about setting up security software had popped up in the corner and I could not dismiss it, that meant that I had to browse the web site I wanted with the alert blocking the bottom of my screen. Not to mention the fact that Aero keeps disabling and then re-enabling itself.
Every time I see a non-technical person's laptop, it is always loaded with spyware and viruses.
I have no idea what people do to their computers but they always end up in a very bad state and people (normally children) get shouted at for breaking the computer.
Why don't you look at Native Client from Google? They seem to think that they have a solution for viruses AND trojans. It is designed to run on top of Linux. It looks like they have worked out a way to run untrusted code without breaking your computer. Windows advocates have been saying for years that this is impossible.
Score: -1
|"the last Windows 7 laptop I used ran so slowly that I had to wait 2-3 seconds to scroll down in a web page"
Then why is there no public news/outrage over this? Perhaps your machine was either underpowered or the website you visited had a slow server, or your internet connection itself was slow. Naw, it couldn't be that.
PC problem? Just Blame Microsoft!
"Every time I see a non-technical person's laptop, it is always loaded with spyware and viruses.
I have no idea"
So because of your experience means this is how it is for everyone else? And you have no idea how to properly lock down or implement standard windows user rights or windows steadystate?
Blame The User and Not The Admin!
"Some Windows alert about setting up security software had popped up in the corner and I could not dismiss it"
Just....WOW. You say you don't know how to turn this off; Did you say you work in the IT field?
I didn't know how to fix it, so it must be a Microsoft bug!
"Native Client from Google"
And what about SOX compliance, software that depends on Windows DRM api's in order to run while maintaining license compliance, or playing back of DRM restricted media like Blu ray?
Use esoteric and longwinded workarounds and hope someday magic pixie fairy dust will create or make apps work!
Score: 1
|"run untrusted code without breaking your computer. Windows advocates have been saying for years that this is impossible."
http://www.sandboxie.com/
snicker! queef! snort!
Score: 1
|When I said untrusted code, I mean native binaries downloaded from the internet, not something which sandboxes a particular application that is already installed.
Your other post is just constantly blaming someone for the problems which you consider to be the norm in computing. Things like ruining your computer just by clicking the wrong link or installing the wrong software.
As I said, I am not responsible for the machine and I am not it's administrator. Obviously the owner does not know how to maintain it, but why should they? Their TV does not break if they watch late night porn, why does their PC?
Playing BluRay has nothing to do with NativeClient, that is something the OS would take care of.
Score: -1
|You mean when Linux gets it's act together and standardizes+documents properly?
(I'll assume it's ten years away and approaching.)
Score: 1
|"mean native binaries downloaded from the internet"
Yes that's exactly what sandboxie does, give it a virtualized windows environment to install in. Seems like you never actually used it. Don't play the semantics game on me.
"Things like ruining your computer just by clicking the wrong link or installing the wrong software."
But didn't you just say that there are NO linux viruses and rootkits? Yet I provided you a link to show otherwise.
Here is another one:
http://www.rootkit.nl/projects/rootkit_hunter.html
You see not everyone likes the default (and often outdated) versions of apps within a typical repository. Once you start to edit your sources list and go outside your walled garden, all bets are off. Moving Goal Posts are we?
"but why should they? Their TV does not break if they watch late night porn, why does their PC?"
Change Analogies. Nice. You can't even watch flash movies on Linux desktop nicely because half the time if you click to a different timeframe or just play, it will bring down entire firefox and sometimes X itself). Not to mention blockiness, stuttering, flash video tearing, and sometimes hard lock the pcs. Which requires (suprise) reboot and/or disable compiz hardware acceleration.
"Playing BluRay has nothing to do with NativeClient, that is something the OS would take care of."
And guess which is currently the only OS allows DRM protection for BD content owners and allows you to play off the shelf BD movies on a computer? (without esoteric workarounds)?
What's the point of dual booting with Linux Desktop if the user can run 100% of his/her applications natively on a single OS and have clear-type font hinting, better browsing speed (firefox runs faster in windows or wine than natively on Linux on the same pc) and integration and better software to boot? You gonna bust out the Microsoft Tax dead horse? What about Levis Jeans? I don't like cheap off brand generic jeans, am I paying the Levi's tax since that's a better product to me? Or does TAX only apply to Microsoft products? Does Tax apply to Apple products (which are more expensive) if I like it, am I not paying Apple tax?
Score: 1
|Actually in the broad term with meaning every person that has a computer on earth.
Most people don't even understand/know that the OS is software.
They think the OS is baked on chips and Windows-like GUI's are free to use by everyone.
They don't try Linux because they don't know about it. What do you expect from those people? They barely take the time to even have look at windows/favourite application shortcuts for common-tasks. And aren't eager to learn, even if it's free. Most people don't spend a lot of time on their computer administering it. I bet 99%+ goes to email, documents, social related(social networks), moving pictures or movies from digital camera's and games be it off or online.
Score: 1
|XP is being used a lot, even today.
Score: 0
|That TV-latenightPorn argument is actually an argument in favor of an exotic Linux distribution. Or other Unix.
Score: 0
|Slowass:)
Score: 0
|First off, don't dare lump OSX with Linux Desktop, they are SO far different, and OSX license is TIED to Apple hardware. You may think "enemy of my enemy is my friend", but you are sadly mistaken.
Unlike Linux Desktop, OSX also has talented and paid commercial programmers, documented API's, a single unified desktop UI, and way better end user experience. Linux Desktop is NOT on the same level as OSX.
"I know a lot of Windows users who are scared to use Linux or Mac because they think that they are hard to learn"
https://www.blogger.com/...sPopup=false&page=5
Ok, for example, in windows, it's trivial to edit firewall settings by finding the application in a nice organized GUI list and altering it's properties.
Here's the Linux desktop way: (from the same website above February 13, 2010 10:04 AM)
"iptables -A PREPOSTROUTING -t gnatsandflys -s 192.168.255.0/255.255.255.0 0/0 0/0 0/0 -somerandombarelydocumentedflag -j SNOT --someotherbunchofnumbers. And that's just to initialize the thing. You'll need like 30 more nearly identical looking lines."
Yeah, that's so "Easy to use"....NOT
But keep at it Billybob. I'm glad you are the kind of business that keeps the rest of US in business.
Keep pushing substandard desktop tools on others, it keeps my phone busy when they beg me to change and improve/integrate/automate their workflows.
Thanks dude!
Score: 1
|Seriously! What do you get when you have 100 "free thinking and creative" people trying to write a OS? Vista? It's about the team working together for a common goal!!
Score: 2
|No, you don't get Vista, you get Linux with all kinds of wild and crazy and inventive software that doesn't always work, but eventually gets better. "Free thinking and creative" gets you cutting edge... and "bleeding edge".
Microsoft is the exact opposite. With Vista you got the same old stuff, repackaged with minor tweaks and a bunch of changes under the hood that mostly made performance worse and a heavy-handed security system that annoyed everyone who couldn't figure out how to turn it off.
Take a lot at the projects going on at Microsoft Research. I've done so many times over the years, and very little of what these boffins do, which is definitely free thinking and creative, and if nothing else definitely interesting, ever seems to make it into any shipping product.
Score: 1
|"A former employee whom I'll call Rodriguez said of the HR review process: "Microsoft has become too 'scorecard' heavy and highly litigated to the point it kills an employee's spirit of free thinking and creativity"
Just think how much would get done if every one of Microsoft's 56,654 US based employees were aloud to be free thinking and creative on the job, not much maybe most of these people lost their jobs because they weren't team players.
Score: 3
|hmm, good point. I don't know about you but as a business owner, I would kill to have Microsoft type problems right about now. How many billions off dollars is Microsoft sitting on?
Score: 4
|